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Author Topic:   Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you!
Percy
Member
Posts: 17744
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 1 of 16 (829592)
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


Today's Washington Post has run an editorial saying that UFOs deserve serious investigation: The military keeps encountering UFOs. Why doesn’t the Pentagon care?

As a child of the 60's UFO reports just roll off me (same for alien abductions), but the author claims corroborating reports by pilots and radar operators of aircraft far beyond the abilities of our own aircraft, such as having no visible means of propulsion and being far faster and more maneuverable.

To establish my skeptic bonafides, once on an incoming night flight to Logan I observed out the window below our plane an amazing formation of huge UFOs with rotating patterns of lights. It was a marvelous sight for a while until it became clear I was seeing neighborhood lights below circular breaks in the clouds. Changing perspective as the plane flew past the breaks in a broad arc caused the apparent light show. Never at any time did I believe I was seeing real UFOs, though it was an astonishing display just the same.

Before there was such a thing as planes people saw angels. After planes were a thing then reports of angels declined and reports of UFOs increased, finally booming with the beginning of the space race. People will always see strange inexplicable things that they interpret in terms of something familiar. I can't explain visual sightings confirmed by radar, but of this I'm sure: there are no alien spacecraft, and no country on Earth has achieved a major breakthrough in flight technology of this nature.

Anyone care to predict who might pipe up in this thread supporting UFOs?

--Percy


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jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(2)
Message 2 of 16 (829593)
03-10-2018 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


Percy writes:

Anyone care to predict who might pipe up in this thread supporting UFOs?

Me! Me! Pick me!!!!!

I really, really, really believe there are things we have not identified.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1768
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 3 of 16 (829594)
03-10-2018 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM



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Faith
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Posts: 29837
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 4 of 16 (829597)
03-10-2018 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


Spiritual or mental rather than physical phenomenon
I don't believe there are extraterrestrial beings from outer space that fly spaceships around the universe, but I think they may be a "spiritual" phenomenon on the order of fallen angels or demons that can manifest such things for the purpose of deceiving humanity.

I got this basic idea from the UFO expert Jacques Vallee who has suggested something similar. Here's an article about him, Heretic Among Heretics: Jacques Vallee Interview

"The UFO Phenomenon exists. It has been with us throughout history. It is physical in nature and it remains unexplained in terms of contemporary science. It represents a level of consciousness that we have not yet recognized, and which is able to manipulate dimensions beyond time and space as we understand them." So much for anti-gravity-powered starships ferrying Big Brothers from outer space. Vallee thinks UFOs are likely "windows" to other dimensions manipulated by intelligent, often mischievous, always enigmatic beings we have yet to understand.

My take on it is biblically based, where angels or demons are presented as realities tht are normally invisible but that can appear in physical form, while Vallee's comes from some other angle, but referring to "beings" as the cause of the phenomena is what makes his views similar. I read a book of his in the early 90s in which he likens the UFO phenomena to all kinds of folklore or fairytale-like phenomena down the ages, suggesting that all these things have the same source in these "beings," who merely choose to manifest such things according to the level of human consciousness or cultural expectations of the time.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 16 (829607)
03-10-2018 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
03-10-2018 10:10 AM


Re: Spiritual or mental rather than physical phenomenon
but I think they may be a "spiritual" phenomenon on the order of fallen angels or demons that can manifest such things for the purpose of deceiving humanity.

Of course.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


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jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 6 of 16 (829609)
03-10-2018 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by NoNukes
03-10-2018 11:44 AM


Re: Spiritual or mental rather than physical phenomenon
Definitely mental!

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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ringo
Member
Posts: 15404
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 7 of 16 (829610)
03-10-2018 12:09 PM


On two separate occasions, I have seen two moons.

The first time it became clear on further observation that one of them was a weather balloon, the only one I have ever seen. It was later confirmed on the news that it was a weather balloon but it had also been reported by several people as a UFO.

The second time I was in a bus shelter and I knew that one of the moons was a reflection. I used my powers of deduction to conclude that the one in the west must have been the reflection because the sun was behind it.

I think it's almost certain that there is life on other planets and it's fairly likely that some of those life-forms are intelligent. It's even likely that some of them have technology far beyond ours. But it seems pretty unlikely that they have the technology to visit us - and even if they did, they'd have a lot of other places to go that would be more interesting.


An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1726
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 8 of 16 (829622)
03-10-2018 1:23 PM


During the 60's when I was in high school my friends and I formed a rocketry club. We had several night launches that were loaded with chemicals that exploded with bright flashes. We also perpetrated several UFO hoaxes involving surplus weather balloons and road hazard flares. Memories from a misspent youth.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5349
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 9 of 16 (829632)
03-10-2018 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tanypteryx
03-10-2018 1:23 PM


Dry- cleaner bags, balsa wood, and small candles on a foggy night = widespread panic in 1960’s Fayetteville, Arkansas. No demons involved.
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Faith
Member
Posts: 29837
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 10 of 16 (829633)
03-10-2018 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
03-10-2018 2:14 PM


Sounds pretty demonic to me!
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 11 of 16 (829634)
03-10-2018 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
03-10-2018 2:14 PM


Dry- cleaner bags, balsa wood, and small candles on a foggy night = widespread panic in 1960’s Fayetteville, Arkansas. No demons involved.

And lots of other places as well. One I heard about (ahem) had a small firecracker attached to the balsa wood. Timing the flash to the sound allowed a rough estimate of elevation. Way over 1,000 feet!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


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frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 12 of 16 (829637)
03-10-2018 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


While i have no doubt there is other intelligent life out there given the shear size and scope of the universe. I have serius doubts that any would come to see us, we are a species barely out of its dipers still believing in magic men in the sky, we still our own kind for idiotic reasons, and given how we screwed up the planet we probably wont make it as a space faring species, so its doubtful we are interesting enough for any advanced species that could make it here to actually warrent the trip.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 16 (829670)
03-11-2018 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by frako
03-10-2018 4:09 PM


I have serius doubts that any would come to see us, we are a species barely out of its dipers still believing in magic men in the sky, we still our own kind for idiotic reasons, and given how we screwed up the planet we probably wont make it as a space faring species, so its doubtful we are interesting enough for any advanced species that could make it here to actually warrent the trip.

From how far away do you think our "screwedupness" can be detected?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


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ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1768
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 14 of 16 (829692)
03-12-2018 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


...and no country on Earth has achieved a major breakthrough in flight technology of this nature.

New Set of Aerodynamic Configurations make Hypersonic Airplanes a Reality

It wouldn't surprise me to find that some well funded departments have known this for decades.


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jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 15 of 16 (829694)
03-12-2018 10:30 AM


Remember the Gaither Report and the Missile Gap?
Some of us may be old enough to remember things like the Gaither Report and the "Missile Gap" and the Bay of Tonkin and other things used to increase defense spending that in the end turned out to be somewhat different than what was sold.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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