Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 89 (8876 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-10-2018 6:35 AM
210 online now:
PaulK, Pressie, Tangle (3 members, 207 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Bill Holbert
Post Volume:
Total: 843,740 Year: 18,563/29,783 Month: 508/2,043 Week: 60/386 Day: 10/50 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
2
34Next
Author Topic:   More Right Wing terrorism in the US
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


(4)
Message 16 of 56 (844664)
12-03-2018 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by riVeRraT
12-03-2018 11:53 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
Sorry, but those statistics are entirely wrong or misleading.

https://www.google.com/...-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/amp

Your link doesn't show anything wrong in what Dr Adequate posted. It just looks at a longer time frame, and if you include the massive outlier of September 11th 2001 (Dr A's graphic was looking at only the last decade) Islamic terrorists of course have killed the most. Your link notes, however, that over the same period right wing terrorists have killed more than left wing ones in the US.

I'm not really sure of the value of all these comparisons though. Very few people die due to terrorism. Whether or not one individual gets caught or changes their mind two minutes before carrying out their potentially devastating subway attack has enormous influence on the figures. Can't we just agree that terrorism is bad instead of using it to further polarise the American public?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by riVeRraT, posted 12-03-2018 11:53 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2018 7:11 AM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 17 of 56 (844693)
12-04-2018 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by caffeine
12-03-2018 4:06 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
Well that was the purpose of my post, but all who replied felt it was more important to assign an ideology to it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by caffeine, posted 12-03-2018 4:06 PM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 18 of 56 (844694)
12-04-2018 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by PaulK
12-03-2018 12:07 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
If we are measuing percentages, then terrorism really isn't a problem no matter who you are. That's not saying we shouldn't fight against it. Perhaps fighting against it is what keeps it at bay.

Saying right wing terrorists are a far worse threat because 0.0000002% of the population died from them and only 0.00000015% of the population died from left wing terrorists is stupid.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by PaulK, posted 12-03-2018 12:07 PM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by JonF, posted 12-04-2018 10:54 AM riVeRraT has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 19 of 56 (844703)
12-04-2018 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by riVeRraT
12-04-2018 7:20 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
Your numbers are wrong. Still, right-wing terrorism is significantly more prevalent than left-wing terrorism. But the current administration wants to fight the latter and ignore the former.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2018 7:20 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2018 11:03 AM JonF has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 20 of 56 (844704)
12-04-2018 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by JonF
12-04-2018 10:54 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
It's not significantly more prevalent (by death). By death is not the only way to measure terrorism. Left wing terrorism is far more prevalent today. Antifa is a terrorist organization, and while there is no cut and dry way to measure it's membership because they all hide like cowards, it's estimated to be in the tens of thousands.

Any administration should be worried about this, as well as any American.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by JonF, posted 12-04-2018 10:54 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by JonF, posted 12-04-2018 3:31 PM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 23 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-04-2018 4:59 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 21 of 56 (844732)
12-04-2018 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by riVeRraT
12-04-2018 11:03 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
It's not significantly more prevalent (by death)

[citation required]

Antifa is a terrorist organization,

[citation required] What agency or organization has them on their list? How many people have they killed?

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2018 11:03 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by 1.61803, posted 12-04-2018 4:10 PM JonF has responded
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 10:42 AM JonF has responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2804
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 22 of 56 (844735)
12-04-2018 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by JonF
12-04-2018 3:31 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
JonF writes:

[citation required]

Fox news

JonF writes:

[citation required] What agency or organization has them on their list? How many people have they killed?

What agency? All red state police forces.
How many people? Lots. ~ The Neocon/TeaParty/MAGA/GOP probably


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by JonF, posted 12-04-2018 3:31 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by JonF, posted 12-04-2018 7:05 PM 1.61803 has responded
 Message 28 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 10:43 AM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1893
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 23 of 56 (844737)
12-04-2018 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by riVeRraT
12-04-2018 11:03 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
Any administration should be worried about this, as well as any American.

Funny, I'm not worried about them at all.

I AM worried about right-wing militia assholes running around with their confederate traitor's flags and armed to the teeth and spoiling for a fight.

Trump loves them so fuck him!


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2018 11:03 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 10:44 AM Tanypteryx has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 24 of 56 (844742)
12-04-2018 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by 1.61803
12-04-2018 4:10 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
*Fox News* is not numbers. How many killed by left wing "terrorists" over what time period? How many killed by right wing "terrorists" over the same time period?

List twelve red state police organizations that formally declare antifa to be terrorists. How many people have they killed, with references to the incidents?

Bet you can't answer any of those questions.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by 1.61803, posted 12-04-2018 4:10 PM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by 1.61803, posted 12-04-2018 7:48 PM JonF has responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2804
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 25 of 56 (844747)
12-04-2018 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by JonF
12-04-2018 7:05 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
Jon, I was being sarcastic and kidding. It went went over bad sorry.

Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by JonF, posted 12-04-2018 7:05 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by JonF, posted 12-05-2018 8:51 AM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 26 of 56 (844773)
12-05-2018 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by 1.61803
12-04-2018 7:48 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
Whoops, I didn't notice it was you and not RiverRat. (On my phone it's much easier to read this site with the names scrolled offscreen). No harm done. Just another instance of Poe's law.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by 1.61803, posted 12-04-2018 7:48 PM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 27 of 56 (844780)
12-05-2018 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by JonF
12-04-2018 3:31 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
I already provided citations by death. Do the math yourself.

The government has labelled Antifa a terrorist organization. The fact that you don't know that should concern you.

https://www.google.com/...d-security-fbi-a7927881.html%3famp


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by JonF, posted 12-04-2018 3:31 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by JonF, posted 12-05-2018 11:17 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 36 by JonF, posted 12-05-2018 1:57 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded
 Message 37 by JonF, posted 12-05-2018 2:09 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 28 of 56 (844781)
12-05-2018 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by 1.61803
12-04-2018 4:10 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
Wrong, and wrong.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by 1.61803, posted 12-04-2018 4:10 PM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 29 of 56 (844782)
12-05-2018 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tanypteryx
12-04-2018 4:59 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
Please provide a citation tying militia groups with white spuremacists, or terrorist activity.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-04-2018 4:59 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 12-05-2018 11:01 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 31 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-05-2018 11:02 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 34 by JonF, posted 12-05-2018 11:21 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 30 of 56 (844784)
12-05-2018 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by riVeRraT
12-05-2018 10:44 AM


Right and Left Wing Rants....are they worth our time?
Havent seen you around for awhile, Rat. How have you been anyway? Still flying model airplanes? Let me read up on all your comments and reply to you here.....(*reads comments*)

What I don't like is how we are obsessed with tying these horrific acts to an ideology, and not mental illness. As if to say, see, being a right winger is bad, you're all bad.
Agreed, but it seems the main focus of these debates/discussions is the ideologies themselves. I self-identify as a political moderate. Our society does have a lot of mental illness these days. We blame the guns rather than mental illness. We also could blame the prevalence of social media for stirring up the arguments, and we could ask ourselves why we personally feel the need to comment and/or defend our own personal views.
Rat, responding to ringo writes:

You are what is wrong with America.

He is right though...he is a left-wing Canadian. Perhaps a question to ask is if he were a right-wing Canadian would he still be part of the problem rather than the solution? I've been hanging out here quite a few years, and ringo is one who is articulate and opinionated in his responses to our posts. He gets under my skin occasionally but I'm glad he is around.
Caffeine, replying to Rat writes:

Can't we just agree that terrorism is bad instead of using it to further polarise the American public?


Well that was the purpose of my post, but all who replied felt it was more important to assign an ideology to it.
I'm guessing you are a moderate leaning towards conservative values...but are moderate enough to consider all ideologies as equally valid (or useless).

Would you say that your worldview has been influenced by the church or would you argue that you are balanced enough in life to associate with a broader spectrum of people than just believers?

RR writes:

Left-wing terrorism is far more prevalent today. Antifa is a terrorist organization, and while there is no cut and dry way to measure it's membership because they all hide like cowards, it's estimated to be in the tens of thousands.

Correct me if i'm wrong--but could this be due to the fact that there are more left wingers globally in general?
Which has a higher percentage worldwide: left-wing or right-wing?
quote:

Answers from several replies

1)it's absolutely impossible to say. Left-wing and right-wing are notions which aren’t the same for every person.

I will take as an example two countries I know a bit: France and the USA.

In the USA, here is how people see these politics:

American politicians
Barrack Obama: left-wing
Ted Cruz: right-wing
Donald Trump: far right-wing

French politicians
François Hollande: left-wing
Nicolas Sarkozy: centre right-wing
Marine Lepen: far right-wing

In France, here is how we see these same politicians:

American politicians
Barrack Obama: centre right-wing
Ted Cruz: almost far right-wing
Donald Trump: very far right-wing
French politicians
François Hollande: centre left-wing, even right-wing by some people these days
Nicolas Sarkozy: almost far right-wing or right-wing, depends on the day
Marine Lepen: far right-wing
We can’t define a precise political spectrum, given the fact that it depends on where you live, how you’ve been educated, and what kind of right and left you are used to.
...
Though I have no statistical data, I am sure that number of Right Wings are far over than Left Wings.
...
2) Easily right-wing.

There’s an acronym used in psychology: WEIRD. It stands for Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic, but it’s also intended to show that the distinctive worldview of educated people from Western nations is held by a minority of the world’s population.

Since the founding of civilization, most people’s idea of a good society has been a well-ordered hierarchy. When everyone and everything is in the proper, divinely-ordained place, there is order. When this hierarchy is disrupted, there is chaos.

The WEIRD worldview is a relative newcomer.


Food for thought.

And glad to see you posting.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 10:44 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by ringo, posted 12-05-2018 2:44 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 41 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 6:09 PM Phat has responded

  
Prev1
2
34Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018