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Author Topic:   More Right Wing terrorism in the US
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1893
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 31 of 56 (844785)
12-05-2018 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by riVeRraT
12-05-2018 10:44 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
Please provide a citation tying militia groups with white spuremacists, or terrorist activity.

I didn't say anything about white spuremacists.

There is a whole thread about The Bundys and the Armed Occupation of a National Wildlife Refuge.

Those fucking assholes terrorized the town of Burns for months.

ABE: And there were plenty of confederate flags seen on vehicles in Burns.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 10:44 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 12-05-2018 11:18 AM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 42 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 6:11 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 32 of 56 (844787)
12-05-2018 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
12-05-2018 10:42 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
I already provided citations by death. Do the math yourself.

No need. From your link:

quote:
Terrorists murdered 3,342 people on U.S. soil from 1992 through August 12, 2017. Islamist terrorists are responsible for 92% of all those murders. The 9/11 attacks, by themselves, killed about 89% of all the victims during this time. During this time, the chance of being murdered in a terrorist attack committed by an Islamist was about 1 in 2.5 million per year.

Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists are the second deadliest group by ideology, as they account for 6.6% of all terrorist murders during this time. The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the second deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history, killed 168 people and accounted for 77% of all the murders committed by Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists. The chance of being murdered in a Nationalist or Right Wing terrorist attack was about 1 in 33 million per year.

Left Wing terrorists killed only 23 people in terrorist attacks during this time, about 0.7% of the total number of murders, but 13 since the beginning of 2016. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have only killed five since then, including Charlottesville. Regardless, the annual chance of being murdered by a Left Wing terrorist was about 1 in 330 million per year.

Terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly. Islamists swamped them all.


I.e you are wrong.

The government has labelled Antifa a terrorist organization. The fact that you don't know that should concern you.

You might be right. Since the official list is not available to the public, it's difficult to tell for sure.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 10:42 AM riVeRraT has responded

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Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 33 of 56 (844788)
12-05-2018 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Tanypteryx
12-05-2018 11:02 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
I suppose that we all could agree that each side has its assholes.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-05-2018 11:02 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-05-2018 11:25 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 34 of 56 (844789)
12-05-2018 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by riVeRraT
12-05-2018 10:44 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
https://www.mintpressnews.com/...s-white-supremacists/251687
https://www.politico.com/...s-militias-private-police-215498
This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1893
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 35 of 56 (844790)
12-05-2018 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
12-05-2018 11:18 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
I suppose that we all could agree that each side has its assholes.

Yeah, like Trump said, "There are good people on both sides."


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 12-05-2018 11:18 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 36 of 56 (844800)
12-05-2018 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
12-05-2018 10:42 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
COUNTERING VIOLENT EXTREMISM: Actions Needed to Define Strategy and Assess Progress of Federal Efforts

quote:
This appendix provides details on the violent extremist attacks in the United States based on the U.S. Extremist Crime Database (ECDB) data and as described in the background section of this report. Specifically, tables 1 and 2 show a description, date, location and number of victim fatalities for each far right and radical Islamist attack between September 12, 2001 and December 31, 2016. During this period, no persons in the United States were killed in attacks carried out by persons believed to be motivated by extremist environmental beliefs, extremist “animal liberation” beliefs, or extremist far left beliefs. The information on these attacks, including the motivations of the attackers, is from the ECDB, maintained by National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), at the University of Maryland. START is a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Center of Excellence. The ECDB tracks violent extremist incidents in the United States since 1990. For our analysis, we included the time period from September 12, 2001 through December 31, 2016, to show violent extremist attacks that have occurred since the September 11, 2001 attacks. We assessed the reliability of this data source through review of database documentation and interviews with the ECDB principle investigators. We discussed cases with the ECDB investigators to clarify details as needed. We determined that this data source was sufficiently reliable for providing background information on the problem of violent extremism in the United States, including the number of attacks and fatalities by ideological motivation (far right or radical Islamist), year and location.

...

Table 1: Far Right Violent Extremist-Motivated Attacks that Resulted in Fatalities, September 12, 2001 through December 31, 2016, as reported in the U.S. Extremist Crime Database (ECDB)

...

Number of incidents: 62 Total victims: 106

Table 2: Radical Islamist Violent Extremist-Motivated Attacks that Resulted in Fatalities, September 12, 2001 through December 31, 2016, as reported in the U.S. Extremist Crime Database (ECDB)

...

Number of Incidents: 23 Total Victims: 119


Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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JonF
Member
Posts: 4284
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 37 of 56 (844801)
12-05-2018 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
12-05-2018 10:42 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
Did far-right extremist violence really spike in 2017?

quote:
The far-right committed eight fatal attacks in 2017 that killed nine people, including the vehicle attack in Charlottesville.

Three homicides intentionally targeted African-Americans, two in Baton Rouge and one in New York City.

Another attack involved a heated exchange over political ideology between a father and son, while a separate incident involving a xenophobic and racist tirade on public transportation in Portland escalated into a double murder.

Two other attacks took the lives of an Army lieutenant and a sheriff’s deputy.

The number of attacks in 2017 is only slightly higher than the average number of far-right homicides, 7.5, that took place between 1990 and 2016. There was an average of nearly 17 victims per year for the prior 27 years compared to the nine deaths in 2017. If the 168 murder victims of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing are not included in the count, due to the unusually high number of causalities, there was an average of nearly 11 homicide victims per year from 1990 to 2016.

...

In addition, far-left extremists, including black nationalists, committed four homicides with seven victims including two police officers, with two other possible incidents still under investigation. This appears to be a possible shift because, until the last three or so years, the far-left mostly focused on property damage and was involved in few fatal attacks.


Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 10:42 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-05-2018 3:01 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 38 of 56 (844807)
12-05-2018 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
12-05-2018 11:01 AM


Re: Right and Left Wing Rants....are they worth our time?
Phat writes:

Donald Trump: far right-wing


I think he should be classified as Trump-wing.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 12-05-2018 11:01 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1893
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 39 of 56 (844810)
12-05-2018 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by JonF
12-05-2018 2:09 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
The number of attacks in 2017 is only slightly higher than the average number of far-right homicides, 7.5, that took place between 1990 and 2016.

None of the statistics I've seen presented here (in this thread) have addressed the number of threats of violence, beatings and intimidating behavior. Reports of non-lethal attacks against minorities since Trump started spewing seem to be up at schools and colleges across the country as reported in the news.

I don't have any source other than my own impressions and also what I hear from friends that are minorities.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by JonF, posted 12-05-2018 2:09 PM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 12-05-2018 3:04 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 40 of 56 (844811)
12-05-2018 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Tanypteryx
12-05-2018 3:01 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
Tanypteryx writes:

Reports of non-lethal attacks against minorities since Trump started spewing seem to be up at schools and colleges across the country as reported in the news.


Attempted murder isn't "better" than murder. It just means you're no good at it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-05-2018 3:01 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 41 of 56 (844818)
12-05-2018 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
12-05-2018 11:01 AM


Re: Right and Left Wing Rants....are they worth our time?
Phat writes:

He is right though...he is a left-wing Canadian. Perhaps a question to ask is if he were a right-wing Canadian would he still be part of the problem rather than the solution? I've been hanging out here quite a few years, and ringo is one who is articulate and opinionated in his responses to our posts. He gets under my skin occasionally but I'm glad he is around

I don't hate ringo. I debated with him for thousands of posts. I should have said, the way you think is what is wrong with America.

Phat writes:

I'm guessing you are a moderate leaning towards conservative values...but are moderate enough to consider all ideologies as equally valid (or useless).

Bingo, but you knew that already. Raised democrat/progressive, turned Conservative Independent.

Phat writes:

Would you say that your worldview has been influenced by the church or would you argue that you are balanced enough in life to associate with a broader spectrum of people than just believers?

Just the opposite. The church does not dictate my worldview. More specifically, since church is man, and God is God, God does not dictate my world view. My worldview dictates my God. I do not call people believers or non-believers. I treat them all the same since we do not know who goes to heaven. Our job is only to love. The atheists here in this forum helped me form my faith. God sees that.

I never bothered to calculate how many left and right wingers there are in the world. Why are we leaving people in the middle out? What difference does it make? If every single person believed in God, we would still have no proof He exists. Opinions are like assholes.

Yep I still fly planes. More into freestyle FPV drones. I don't miss this place, but I miss people like you.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 42 of 56 (844819)
12-05-2018 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Tanypteryx
12-05-2018 11:02 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
People who associate Confederate flags and militias with all that are ignorant idiots. No better than prejudice bigots.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-05-2018 11:02 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-05-2018 6:20 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5698
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 43 of 56 (844820)
12-05-2018 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by JonF
12-05-2018 11:17 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
You picked the info from the article that backed up your thoughts only. If you minus the Oklahoma City bombing, the numbers are much closer. If you read further, the article cites that left wing numbers are higher than right wing numbers in the last 2 years.

But none of that has anything to do with my point really. People need to stop focusing on ideologys, and stop character assasinating each other. When people have these debates they twist the numbers and present them in a favorable way to try and prove their point. All I see is hypocrisy and false narratives. The US is like a bad "B" movie to me, and everyone is so dumbed down and incapable of rational thought that they end up fighting each other. Families are being split up over this bullshit that the media is peddling to us. It needs to stop.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1893
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 44 of 56 (844821)
12-05-2018 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by riVeRraT
12-05-2018 6:11 PM


Re: Left wing terroism
We saw multiple groups in Burns that claimed to be in various militias and some were flying actual Confederate flags as well as having large Confederate flag stickers on their vehicles.

I guess you are calling me a liar?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by riVeRraT, posted 12-05-2018 6:11 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by riVeRraT, posted 12-06-2018 9:08 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3685
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 45 of 56 (844822)
12-05-2018 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by JonF
12-05-2018 11:17 AM


Re: Left wing terroism
The government has labelled Antifa a terrorist organization. The fact that you don't know that should concern you.

You might be right. Since the official list is not available to the public, it's difficult to tell for sure.

As I understand it, the politics of Antifa are to be anti-far right wing. That does not make them left wing/liberal. Maybe a lot of Antifa is made up of non-lunatic fringe conservatives?

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


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