Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,466 Year: 3,723/9,624 Month: 594/974 Week: 207/276 Day: 47/34 Hour: 3/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Religion or Science - How do they compare?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 391 of 882 (833592)
05-24-2018 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by Faith
05-24-2018 4:16 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
It's simpler than that.
Science deals in evidence-based knowledge.
Religion is concerned with belief.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 4:16 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 4:32 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 392 of 882 (833593)
05-24-2018 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by Tangle
05-24-2018 4:27 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Science deals in evidence-based knowledge.
Religion is concerned with belief.
Yes, and if science rightly handles the evidence so that others can verify it, science is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world.
And if belief is rightly invested in the revelation of the true Creator God, that revelation is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world among many other things.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Tangle, posted 05-24-2018 4:27 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 6:34 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 399 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 10:02 AM Faith has replied
 Message 413 by ringo, posted 05-24-2018 11:51 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 420 by Percy, posted 05-24-2018 1:25 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 393 of 882 (833595)
05-24-2018 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by Faith
05-24-2018 4:32 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Faith writes:
And if belief is rightly invested in the revelation of the true Creator God, that revelation is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world among many other things.
Which true Creator God? Allah? Or one from this partial list of creator Gods.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 4:32 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 9:42 AM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 394 of 882 (833596)
05-24-2018 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by Faith
05-24-2018 2:38 AM


Re: Moral problems of Christianity today.
Southern Baptists are big but they aren't all Baptists and I have been talking about the DOCTRINES of Protestantism
I am not required to limit my remarks to your chosen topic. The Southern Baptists are a huge group of Protestants, and as a group they managed to apologize for their racism and support of slavery a mere 23 years ago.
I understand that you would want to limit the topic so that evil by Protestants is nonexistent but I am not going to play by those rules.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 2:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 10:49 AM NoNukes has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 395 of 882 (833598)
05-24-2018 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
05-20-2018 9:57 AM


Re: Moral problems of Christianity today.
Why are you repeating lies about Judaism? Have you ever read the talmud, or do you rely on claims other people make?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 9:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 1:46 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 396 of 882 (833601)
05-24-2018 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 393 by jar
05-24-2018 6:34 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Of course, if GOD exists, the definition of the true Creator would obviously be the One Who existed before this list was even imagined.
Remember GOD, God, and god? The true one is the one with three capital letters.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 6:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 9:47 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 397 of 882 (833602)
05-24-2018 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 396 by Phat
05-24-2018 9:42 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Phat writes:
Of course, if GOD exists, the definition of the true Creator would obviously be the One Who existed before this list was even imagined.
Remember GOD, God, and god? The true one is the one with three capital letters.
Unless it was GODs.
But how can one such thing be identified.
The Great A'Tuin for example can be identified although as expected no one knows what sex the Great A'Tuin might be.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 9:42 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 9:56 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 398 of 882 (833603)
05-24-2018 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by jar
05-24-2018 9:47 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Unless it was GODs.
Of course, we are free to speculate on the possibility of dualism, polytheism, or pantheism. Or even atheism. Assuming that evidence is the standard...but what if evidence is impossible to gather? At the end of the day what we have left is MEism. That each one of us is free to imagine any belief or reality that we want. Critics will argue that true Reality can be measured, quantified and replicated objectively and is thus more of a WEism than a MEism.
It is easy to believe with verifiable replicable evidence.
But how can one such thing be identified.
The Great A'Tuin, for example, can be identified although as expected no one knows what sex the Great A'Tuin might be.
There is no way that we can know whether or not there are GODs,GOD, or none of the above.
Objectivity and evidence are impossible to provide.
Subjectively, we can individually vote on our choice of belief based upon our internal criteria for such acknowledgment.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 9:47 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 10:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 399 of 882 (833604)
05-24-2018 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by Faith
05-24-2018 4:32 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
... if science rightly handles the evidence so that others can verify it, science is a reliable source...
Science represents a consortium of individuals who have been trained to handle evidence. One could ask what "rightly handling the evidence" means.
What are the motives of science in general?
Are some scientists biased or are they trained to never be biased?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 4:32 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 10:24 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 403 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 11:01 AM Phat has replied
 Message 409 by RAZD, posted 05-24-2018 11:38 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 400 of 882 (833607)
05-24-2018 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 398 by Phat
05-24-2018 9:56 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Phat writes:
Subjectively, we can individually vote on our choice of belief based upon our internal criteria for such acknowledgment.
Then we cannot present God or god or even GOD as a reality. We can only present something created by man.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 9:56 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 401 of 882 (833609)
05-24-2018 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by Phat
05-24-2018 10:02 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Phat writes:
Are some scientists biased or are they trained to never be biased?
Of course scientists are biased but that is the strength of the Scientific Method. The result of any scientist are considered biased and thus replication by other scientists are a necessary step.
It is that assumption that any results reported are wrong and biased until a whole body of other independent groups replicate the results and that even then the results are held only tentatively that separates science from religion.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 10:02 AM Phat has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 402 of 882 (833610)
05-24-2018 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by NoNukes
05-24-2018 7:03 AM


Re: Moral problems of Christianity today.
I am not required to limit my remarks to your chosen topic. The Southern Baptists are a huge group of Protestants, and as a group they managed to apologize for their racism and support of slavery a mere 23 years ago.
Of course, you can address any topic you like, but if you make it look like you are addressing my topic it should actually BE my topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by NoNukes, posted 05-24-2018 7:03 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by NoNukes, posted 05-24-2018 11:19 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 403 of 882 (833611)
05-24-2018 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by Phat
05-24-2018 10:02 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Science represents a consortium of individuals who have been trained to handle evidence. One could ask what "rightly handling the evidence" means.
What are the motives of science in general?
Are some scientists biased or are they trained to never be biased?
Everybody is biased, everybody makes mistakes, scientists are human. That's the big benefit of the experimental method, to allow many heads to judge a scientific claim. I actually agree with jar about this.
As for the Bible, that's why "lone wolves" are discouraged. When only one person reads the Bible and that one point of view is followed by others, cults develop. If many readers are consulted, it is more likely that the best interpretation will be the result. As a proverb in the Bible says, there is safety in many counsellors. Empirical science has the same basic principle.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 10:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 11:54 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 404 of 882 (833613)
05-24-2018 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by Faith
05-24-2018 10:49 AM


Re: Moral problems of Christianity today.
Of course, you can address any topic you like, but if you make it look like you are addressing my topic it should actually BE my topic.
Calling Protestants committing evil off topic does not cover up anything Faith. What I am saying is no more difficult to understand than that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 10:49 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 11:27 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 405 of 882 (833614)
05-24-2018 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 358 by jar
05-22-2018 8:20 PM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
jar writes:
If faith says "Roman Catholics are not Christians."; then she is lying.
Once one's opinions are known it seems pretty common to dispense with prefixes like "I believe" and "I think" and "It is my opinion" and so forth.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by jar, posted 05-22-2018 8:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 11:41 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024