Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Religion or Science - How do they compare?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 406 of 882 (833615)
05-24-2018 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by GDR
05-22-2018 10:26 PM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
GDR writes:
jar writes:
Repeating falsehoods, even if you believe them true, does constitute lying.
No. Here is the Oxford definition.
quote:
to say or write something that you know is not true
Thank you GDR for giving the only sane messages on this subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by GDR, posted 05-22-2018 10:26 PM GDR has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 407 of 882 (833616)
05-24-2018 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 404 by NoNukes
05-24-2018 11:19 AM


Re: Moral problems of Christianity today.
Calling Protestants committing evil off topic does not cover up anything Faith. What I am saying is no more difficult to understand than that.
But you are totally wrong to impute the topic to me. I'm talking about official DOCTRINE, not what individuals may do, or even whole biased segments of a church, which often violates official doctrine and the Bible.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by NoNukes, posted 05-24-2018 11:19 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 408 of 882 (833617)
05-24-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 358 by jar
05-22-2018 8:20 PM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
jar writes:
If Faith said "I don't believe Roman Catholics are Christians."; then she is just showing her utter ignorance.
If faith says "Roman Catholics are not Christians."; then she is lying.
Both statements are false in any case, but I would point you to my Message 387 to NoNukes for the explanation that I don't say "Roman Catholics" are not Christians but that Roman CatholiCISM and specifically the PAPACY are not Christian. Please try to get it right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by jar, posted 05-22-2018 8:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 11:39 AM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 409 of 882 (833618)
05-24-2018 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by Phat
05-24-2018 10:02 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
What are the motives of science in general?
To understand how things work.
What are the motives of religion?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 10:02 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 11:41 AM RAZD has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 410 of 882 (833619)
05-24-2018 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by Faith
05-24-2018 11:36 AM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
The fact remains that Roman Catholicism is still Christian Faith despite your fantasies.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 11:36 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 411 of 882 (833620)
05-24-2018 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by RAZD
05-24-2018 11:38 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
RAZD writes:
Phat writes:
What are the motives of science in general?
To understand how things work.
What are the motives of religion?
To understand how everything works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by RAZD, posted 05-24-2018 11:38 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by RAZD, posted 05-24-2018 3:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 412 of 882 (833621)
05-24-2018 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Percy
05-24-2018 11:23 AM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
That might be a reasonable position to take with those who seem to understand there is a difference between belief and reality.
But there are many where it seems that they cannot differentiate between belief and reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Percy, posted 05-24-2018 11:23 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 418 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 12:27 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 413 of 882 (833624)
05-24-2018 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by Faith
05-24-2018 4:32 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Faith writes:
And if belief is rightly invested in the revelation of the true Creator God, that revelation is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world among many other things.
So... if the conclusions you derive are false, which they are, then your belief must be wrongly invested in a false God.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 4:32 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 414 of 882 (833625)
05-24-2018 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by ringo
05-23-2018 8:41 PM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
ringo writes:
Phat writes:
ive never seen evidence that religious people are slower than any other regarding moral actions.
Haven't you heard that there are more religious people in prisons?
This point is worth stressing. This article says that atheists make Up 0.1% of the federal prison population but 3.1% of the general population. The number of atheists in federal prison is about 97% lower than one would expect based on demographics.
The reason for this can be argued. One argument would be that atheists are more moral than non-atheists. A different argument would be that incarceration helps people find religion.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by ringo, posted 05-23-2018 8:41 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by Tangle, posted 05-24-2018 5:27 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 415 of 882 (833626)
05-24-2018 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by Faith
05-24-2018 11:01 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
When only one person reads the Bible and that one point of view is followed by others, cults develop. If many readers are consulted, it is more likely that the best interpretation will be the result.
So if one guy read Genesis and concluded that God lied and the snake told the truth, even if he could show it in the words, it likely would be a cult following that agreed with him, correct?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 11:01 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 11:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 417 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 12:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 416 of 882 (833627)
05-24-2018 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by Phat
05-24-2018 11:54 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Phat writes:
So if one guy read Genesis and concluded that God lied and the snake told the truth, even if he could show it in the words, it likely would be a cult following that agreed with him, correct?
But what is actually written in the story Phat?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 11:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 417 of 882 (833628)
05-24-2018 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Phat
05-24-2018 11:54 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Phat writes:
So if one guy read Genesis and concluded that God lied and the snake told the truth, even if he could show it in the words, it likely would be a cult following that agreed with him, correct?
Correct. Because words are subject to different interpretations and the interpretation with the most counsellors with the best reputations is the one passed on as traditional accepted doctrine. It is understood by all the best theologians that all parts of the Bible are to be read in the light of all the other parts.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Phat, posted 05-24-2018 11:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 418 of 882 (833629)
05-24-2018 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by jar
05-24-2018 11:41 AM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
But there are many where it seems that they cannot differentiate between belief and reality.
Which describes you very nicely, jar, since you believe you are a Christian though the reality is that you are not because you don't believe the essential things that would make you a Christian.
And you believe that the Pope is a Christian though the reality is that he is not, as I showed in Message 387.
And you believe that you understand the Bible though the reality is that you do not.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 11:41 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by jar, posted 05-24-2018 2:41 PM Faith has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 419 of 882 (833630)
05-24-2018 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by Faith
05-24-2018 4:16 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Faith writes:
How's about a little note on the topic of this thread, how religion and science compare? Well, science in its best most reliable form, which has developed only quite recently, is designed to discover truths about the physical world in a way that can be verified by others who follow the same procedures for testing it (which can't be said for the historical sciences but that's another subject),...
Science doesn't really "discover truths about the physical world." It can only uncover what is likely true about the physical world. The part about testing (replicability) is true, while the part characterizing historical sciences as untestable is false.
...while the Bible (not "religion"), God's own revelation to His confused fallen human race, provides us with reliable facts mostly about spiritual things but also a few physical things, that are to be trusted because they come from God.
This is what some people believe.
Both are sources of reliable knowledge if rightly understood and followed.
Considered from a factual, testable standpoint, the Bible contains both true and false information. It also contains a great deal of unverifiable information.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 4:16 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 420 of 882 (833632)
05-24-2018 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by Faith
05-24-2018 4:32 AM


Re: Back to the title of the thread
Faith writes:
Yes, and if science rightly handles the evidence so that others can verify it, science is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world.
Rephrasing, you're saying that science based upon unverifiable evidence is unreliable (and you should include untestable and/or impossible claims as well). But such attempts at science are rejected by the scientific community. It is because of the requirements of evidence and replicability that science has shown itself to be the best method we have of understanding the natural world.
And if belief is rightly invested in the revelation of the true Creator God, that revelation is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world among many other things.
Some people believe this, but religion lacks requirements for evidence and replicability, so it isn't possible to verify its claims.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 4:32 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Faith, posted 05-24-2018 1:38 PM Percy has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024