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Author Topic:   An attempt to let Flood supporters explain how things were created
jar
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(1)
Message 1 of 53 (832143)
04-29-2018 8:15 AM


Maybe if we move really slowly and stick to only one piece of evidence at a time Faith or some other believer in a Biblical Flood can finally explain just how the flood do that.

I'd like to stick to only ten specific items and work through the list only moving to the next item after a workable model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that can be seen in action today has been presented to explain how the flood did that specific example.

The initial list:


  1. The Landscape seen in this image:

  2. Capitan Reef

  3. Layered salt deposits separated by sediment layers

  4. The cross bedding seen in this picture

  5. The White Cliffs of Dover

Once these five small examples are explained then we can move on to another set of evidence that needs a floodist explanation.

Probably Geology & The Great Flood although it is almost certain things that once lived will get added to the list even more than as shown already.

Edited by jar, : suggest location

Edited by jar, : add text to first image


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AdminPhat
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Message 2 of 53 (832145)
04-30-2018 9:33 AM


Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
Thread copied here from the An attempt to let Flood supporters explain how things were created thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

Perhaps you can initiate the explanations as you see them, giving us an opportunity to be educated on current theories and consensus. Our Creationist "Flood Supporters" will be given an opportunity to present any countering explanations that support their model.

Edited by AdminPhat, : added thoughts


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jar
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Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 3 of 53 (832148)
04-30-2018 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
04-30-2018 9:33 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
Nope. Any conventional explanation is pretty much irrelevant to this thread. The point is
How do the FLUD do it?"

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Phat
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Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 4 of 53 (832159)
04-30-2018 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
04-30-2018 9:39 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
jar writes:

Any conventional explanation is pretty much irrelevant to this thread. The point is
How do the FLUD do it?"

Browsing other threads, I can see faiths position summerized as follows:
Faith,in a montage writes:

My views are based on observation of the physical world, including the view that there was no Jurassic time period or any other time period. The physical realities deducible from the the Geological Column say so...(...)Dating is all you have though, and it will eventually be shown to be full of error. Meanwhile the REASONABLE evidence is in favor of the Young Earth. The Geological Timescale with its time periods pretending that anything could have lived on a sea of wet sediment, or that evolution needs millions of years to produce a simple trilobite variation, is scientifically preposterous and is going to have to go.(...)You don't know how those formed either, but they look to me like they were formed by swirling water. (...)The early geologists made up stuff that was patently unbiblical among other things. And facts are facts, it doesn't take any special scientific principles to establish most facts.(...)Yeah my emotions do run away with me. The utterly stupid things people say against my arguments get to me. What difference could writing in all caps make when nothing I say gets the slightest fair hearing anyway?(...) The evidence supports creationism just as well as it can be made to support evolution. It's all a matter of interpretation.{...)I've never claimed more than a rudimentary understanding, but of course I claim to understand enough to make the arguments I make.(...)We're all subject to blindness to other ways of looking at something we've been convinced of.(...)Fossil order is a clever idea but it's not true, it's just the work of the fallen human mind.(...)Oh I may be wrong about this or that, but you certainly must be too, because although I'm sure you do honest geology you are unfortunately doing it without regard to the God who made it all. My guesses may miss some of the physical evidence of what God did, but at least I know He did it. Geology would be a very different enterprise if you acknowledged the Creator God. You know, examine all the evidence with the knowledge that it supports the biblical accounts.

I am not saying that I think the way that Faith thinks, but I can understand her belief. You refer to it as a cult, but at least understand that her belief in Gods revelation is what drives her entire attempt at argumentation. I must say, after reading her replies to the lot of you, that she prays quite a lot for inspiration to carry on this argument, from Biology to Geology,
and is one of the most tenacious debaters that I have ever observed.

Basically, the first point is that God did it. Somehow. Some way.
The second point is that what science calls evidence is simply an interpretation and ultimately a belief.

This is why I requested your explanations for the pictures which you posted. Otherwise we will simply have another topic like Faiths other topics...where she argues relentlessly with you guys. That is not very educational, in my mind.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 9:39 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 11:13 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 5 of 53 (832162)
04-30-2018 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
04-30-2018 11:04 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
Faith writes:

Basically, the first point is that God did it. Somehow. Some way.
The second point is that what science calls evidence is simply an interpretation and ultimately a belief.

Then if that is all she has she has an opportunity here to admit she has nothing but the dogma of her Cult.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 4 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 11:04 AM Phat has responded

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Phat
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Posts: 10770
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 6 of 53 (832164)
04-30-2018 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
04-30-2018 11:13 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
she may argue that that's all you have also.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 11:13 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 11:20 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 7 of 53 (832165)
04-30-2018 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
04-30-2018 11:14 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
She can try something that stupid if she wishes, but the topic is "How the flood did it" not how things actually happened.

It's time she or those who believe there was a Biblical Flood actually stopped whining and dancing and presented the model, method mechanism process and procedures that created what exists in reality.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 11:26 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
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Posts: 10770
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 8 of 53 (832166)
04-30-2018 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
04-30-2018 11:20 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
First, we would have to agree that the only standard of acceptable proof allowed is, in fact, a model, method mechanism process and/or procedure.(s)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 11:20 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 11:33 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 9 of 53 (832167)
04-30-2018 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
04-30-2018 11:26 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
LOL

Not at all. Faith can simply say "GodDidIt" or "Bubblegum" or "It was a miracle".

But it is up to those who support the Biblical Flood nonsense to explain "How the Flud Did It".


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 11:26 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 04-30-2018 11:59 AM jar has responded
 Message 19 by ICANT, posted 05-07-2018 12:12 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10770
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 10 of 53 (832172)
04-30-2018 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
04-30-2018 11:33 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
IIRC, you have argued against there even being a Biblical Great Flood.
In Describing what the Biblical Flood would be like. You and Faith cover your respective arguments quite thoroughly. I certainly don't intend to argue in favor of a global flood---perhaps faith will address your pictures and start a counter argument as to their likely origins and methods of formation.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 11:33 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 12:08 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 11 of 53 (832175)
04-30-2018 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
04-30-2018 11:59 AM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
Finally. Yes, this topic is "An attempt to let Flood supporters explain how things were created". It's time that they stopped simply posting word salad and explained how each specific example in the first five items were created and do so one item at a time.


  1. The Landscape seen in this image:

  2. Capitan Reef

  3. Layered salt deposits separated by sediment layers

  4. The cross bedding seen in this picture

  5. The White Cliffs of Dover

Once these five small examples are explained then we can move on to another set of evidence that needs a floodist explanation.

The items need to be specifically addressed in order and only after the explanation for the first item and any necessary clarification has been provided should we move on to item two.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Tangle
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Posts: 5676
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
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(1)
Message 12 of 53 (832185)
04-30-2018 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
04-30-2018 12:08 PM


Re: Perhaps You Can Initiate The Explanations
Just to be picky, the White Cliffs of Dover are not in that picture. That's a photo of Belle Tout lighthouse at Seven Sisters. Dover is about 100 miles to the East. But it's all the same geology which shows how extensive it is.

Also - Faith - it aint flat.

quote:
The Chalk Formation was laid down under the sea during the Upper Cretaceous period, and was later uplifted at around the same time as the Alps were formed. In south-east England, the chalk deposits were formed into an elongated dome, with the long axis in a roughly east-west direction. Erosion along the line of this axis removed the central part of the chalk and revealed the underlying Wealden deposits. The remaining chalk forms the characteristic escarpments of the North and South Downs.

Stronger uplift and folding occurred in Dorset and the Isle of Wight, where the chalk strata are almost vertical in some places, such as The Needles.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...uthern_England_Chalk_Formation


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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 Message 11 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 12:08 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 13 of 53 (832318)
05-02-2018 9:49 AM


BUMP
I guess no flood supporters can explain how the Biblical Flood creates what we find in reality.

And there were so many more examples I'd hoped they could explain too.

Edited by jar, : add er


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jar
Member
Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 14 of 53 (832448)
05-03-2018 5:23 PM


Bump.
Here is a chance for those who think a Biblical Flood actually happened to explain how the flood created the evidence that exists in reality.

Bueller?

Bueller?

Bueller?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 15 of 53 (832551)
05-05-2018 8:33 AM


Bump!
Here is a chance for those who think a Biblical Flood actually happened to explain how the flood created the evidence that exists in reality.

Bueller?

Bueller?

Bueller?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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