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Author Topic:   The spectacular fall of YEC beliefs
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 121 of 198 (833296)
05-19-2018 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Percy
05-19-2018 10:48 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
I've never seen you extend the benefit of the doubt to anyone you disagree with, regardless of context. Muslims are members of a murderous religion, Catholics aren't Christians, and liberals are taking away your rights.

You are not talking about extending the benefit of the doubt about a particular subject in a debate, you are talking about a whole ideology I happen to have studied enough to know that it is what it is. That's got nothing to do with giving any benefit of the doubt. If a Muslim told me in a discussion that he has the "liberal" interpretation of jihad that is spiritual rather than physical, I would have no reason to disbelieve him since I know that interpretation of Islam does exist. But I also know that Islam as interpreted by strict fundamentalists (such as the Iranian Ayatollah Khomeini) very aggressively advocates murdering infidels, considering it a command from Allah, and that sometimes a liberal can change to a fundamentalist. But this is about ideology, not persons, and in any case has nothing to do with the situation of being in a discussion with a Muslim where benefit of the doubt might be relevant.

And you misrepresent what I've said about Catholicism. I've said that some Catholics are certainly Christians but that the institution itself and especially its leadership by the Pope and the hierarchy, is not. Again nothing to do with a discussion in which benefit of the doubt is relevant. The Reformation exposed the essential nonChristianity of Catholicism and antiChristianity of the papacy in particular, in book after book after book. Again this is about ideology, not persons.

The statement about liberals is too broad to answer, but again it is false to talk about individuals since I focus on the ideology and not individuals, at least try to keep the distinction clear.

Bringing this into the thread's context, these same intolerant and inflexible attitudes extend to scientifically established understandings about Earth and life history and are responsible for the persistence of YEC beliefs.

So there's no such thing as established truth about anything according to you, one must always be "flexible" even if one knows something for a fact. You don't believe that yourself of course, you just have a different set of inflexible dogmas than I do, "scientifically established understandings" as opposed to divinely established understandings for instance.

How "flexible" are you about YEC? About the Bible? About the dates of the Earth?

How flexibie are you about my motives in this particular discussion for isntance. How much benefit of the doubt, as a matter of fact, do you ever extend to me on this very subject where you always lambast and excoriate me? Based on your own inflexibile beliefs.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Percy, posted 05-19-2018 10:48 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Percy, posted 05-20-2018 9:58 AM Faith has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17984
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 122 of 198 (833348)
05-20-2018 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
05-19-2018 11:10 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
I think we've all seen you express your anti-Muslim, -Catholic, -liberal attitudes enough times that no rebuttal is necessary.

Faith writes:

So there's no such thing as established truth about anything according to you, one must always be "flexible" even if one knows something for a fact.

While I wouldn't express it this way, you're describing the tentativity of science, which has no "established truth." But YECs do think they have "established truth," and this explains their intolerant and inflexible attitude toward scientifically established theories that conflict with their religious beliefs

You don't believe that yourself of course, you just have a different set of inflexible dogmas than I do, "scientifically established understandings" as opposed to divinely established understandings for instance.

If there is any dogma in science it is that data from the real world will set you free.

How "flexible" are you about YEC? About the Bible? About the dates of the Earth?

Will you be responding to requests for evidence and questions about your scenarios, or will you be ignoring them?

How flexible are you about my motives in this particular discussion for instance. How much benefit of the doubt, as a matter of fact, do you ever extend to me on this very subject where you always lambast and excoriate me? Based on your own inflexible beliefs.

I don't think anyone ever finds ignorance, intolerance and silence very persuasive. But erecting walls has proven effective at maintaining religious belief, YEC belief in the case of this thread.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 05-19-2018 11:10 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 10:07 AM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 123 of 198 (833349)
05-20-2018 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Percy
05-20-2018 9:58 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
"Scientifically established understandings" was your phrase, and you were condemning me for denying those understandings. Which denial as a matter of fact only pertains to the historical sciences which I consider to be bad science, no other kind of science.

In any case your unwarranted personal attacks on me continue and as a result I continue to ignore you when I choose to.

Oh, and let me repeat: Islam is an evil ideology that seeks the murder of "infidels" as well as a world-wide caliphate; and Roman Catholicism is a power-hungry pagan superstitious ideology that also seeks the murder of "infidels." Two peas in a pod really, as some of the Reformers also noted. There are Muslims who fortunately don't follow their ideology very closely and the same with Catholics, but that doesn't change the fact that the ideologies are pure evil.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Percy, posted 05-20-2018 9:58 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2018 10:27 AM Faith has responded
 Message 126 by Capt Stormfield, posted 05-20-2018 10:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 147 by Percy, posted 05-20-2018 8:29 PM Faith has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5777
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(1)
Message 124 of 198 (833350)
05-20-2018 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
05-20-2018 10:07 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Oh, and let me repeat: Islam is an evil ideology that seeks the murder of "infidels" as well as a world-wide caliphate; and Roman Catholicism is a power-hungry pagan superstitious ideology that also seeks the murder of "infidels." Two peas in a pod really, as some of the Reformers also noted. There are Muslims who fortunately don't follow their ideology very closely and the same with Catholics, but that doesn't change the fact that the ideologies are pure evil.

Time and time again Faith shows that there is no reason to even try to attempt civil discourse. Of course the radical right religious dogma Faith follows is pure. If they ever gained real power, I and many like me would be imprisoned or killed for our beliefs or lack thereof. Homosexuals would be imprisoned and/or murdered. Then they will move on to the righteous Christians that just are not pure enough.

That is the pure and good faith that Faith espouses.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 10:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 10:32 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 125 of 198 (833351)
05-20-2018 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Theodoric
05-20-2018 10:27 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
That is an insane fantasy of your own that bears no resemblance to Protestant Christianity. Must be inspired by Catholicism. It was Reformation Proetstantism that inspired all the liberal doctr5ines of the American constitution. Nobody is saying Protestants as human beings are perfect, but Biblical Christianity is the best thing that ever happened to the human race. Of course all the powers of darkness including Roman Catholicism itself are working hard to destroy it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2018 10:27 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by JonF, posted 05-20-2018 1:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 398
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 126 of 198 (833353)
05-20-2018 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
05-20-2018 10:07 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Oh, and let me repeat: Islam is an evil ideology that seeks the murder of "infidels" as well as a world-wide caliphate; and Roman Catholicism is a power-hungry pagan superstitious ideology that also seeks the murder of "infidels." Two peas in a pod really, as some of the Reformers also noted. There are Muslims who fortunately don't follow their ideology very closely and the same with Catholics, but that doesn't change the fact that the ideologies are pure evil.

And in that same spirit, how would you characterize the brand of fundamentalism you espouse?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 10:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 10:42 AM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 127 of 198 (833355)
05-20-2018 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Capt Stormfield
05-20-2018 10:37 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
My fundamentalism teaches a merciful loving God who seeks to save us from the eternal punishment for our transgressions of His Law.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Capt Stormfield, posted 05-20-2018 10:37 AM Capt Stormfield has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Capt Stormfield, posted 05-20-2018 3:41 PM Faith has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4295
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 128 of 198 (833378)
05-20-2018 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Faith
05-20-2018 10:32 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Reformation Proetstantism that inspired all the liberal doctr5ines of the American constitution

The Enlightenment.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 10:32 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 398
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 129 of 198 (833382)
05-20-2018 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
05-20-2018 10:42 AM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
My fundamentalism teaches a merciful loving God who seeks to save us from the eternal punishment for our transgressions of His Law.

Gee, sounds pretty much like Catholicism and Islam. Sin, punishment created and conceived by God, mercy contingent on one variety or other of teabagging, maybe the odd mercy killing of fags and Hittites thrown in when it's era appropriate....

Don't really see the distinction.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 10:42 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 5:23 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 130 of 198 (833393)
05-20-2018 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Capt Stormfield
05-20-2018 3:41 PM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Can't see the distinction between Allah who wants infidels murdered and offers no salvation, just endless futile attempts to be righteous which includes killing infidels, the Pope who wants infidels murdered and thinks salvation depends on being good or being in good standing with the Roman Church, and the Protestant God who died to save us from the inexorable Moral Law. Right, SO similar.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Capt Stormfield, posted 05-20-2018 3:41 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 05-20-2018 5:27 PM Faith has responded
 Message 136 by Capt Stormfield, posted 05-20-2018 7:00 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 131 of 198 (833396)
05-20-2018 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Faith
05-20-2018 5:23 PM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Faith writes:

Can't see the distinction between Allah who wants infidels murdered and offers no salvation, just endless futile attempts to be righteous which includes killing infidels, the Pope who wants infidels murdered and thinks salvation depends on being good or being in good standing with the Roman Church, and the Protestant God who died to save us from the inexorable Moral Law. Right, SO similar.

What we can see is that you are still simply posting falsehoods about the Roman Catholic Church, about Islam and about the Christian Cult you market.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 5:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 5:29 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 132 of 198 (833398)
05-20-2018 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by jar
05-20-2018 5:27 PM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Ah yes of course, couldn't be that you've bought the revisionist propaganda, it must be that everything I've read on the subject is a lie. But of course, what else could it be if I'm the one posting it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 05-20-2018 5:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 05-20-2018 5:41 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 133 of 198 (833400)
05-20-2018 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
05-20-2018 5:29 PM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Faith writes:

Ah yes of course, couldn't be that you've bought the revisionist propaganda, it must be that everything I've read on the subject is a lie.

While the former is absolutely false the latter is very likely based on what you post and the sources you seem to use.

When your sources are from the Christian Cult of Ignorance and Dishonesty it will be difficult for anyone to take anything you post seriously.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 5:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 6:38 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 134 of 198 (833406)
05-20-2018 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by jar
05-20-2018 5:41 PM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
I couldn't care less any more if doltish fatheaded Liberal Nazis haven't the fairness or the intelligence to take me seriously. And all based on the spurious fallacious ad hominem or argument from authority. I do care that such a mental deficiency is running things these days though. Right into the ground since there doesn't seem to be any stopping it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 05-20-2018 5:41 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Tangle, posted 05-20-2018 6:51 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6389
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 135 of 198 (833410)
05-20-2018 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
05-20-2018 6:38 PM


Re: Cut the ad hominems.
Faith writes:

I couldn't care less any more if doltish fatheaded Liberal Nazis haven't the fairness or the intelligence to take me seriously. And all based on the spurious fallacious ad hominem or argument from authority. I do care that such a mental deficiency is running things these days though. Right into the ground since there doesn't seem to be any stopping it.

Right, I don't care how long it is, that's a bumper sticker.

I really love the idea of a liberal nazi. Glorious bollox.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 05-20-2018 6:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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