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Author Topic:   Motley Flood Thread (formerly Historical Science Mystification of Public)
Faith
Member
Posts: 29541
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 526 of 877 (834711)
06-10-2018 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by JonF
06-10-2018 9:22 AM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
Yes. And erosion causes other things. Such as flat plains where the material is deposited.

Absolutely irrelevant to the point I'm making and therefore nothing but obfuscation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 9:22 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 3:57 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14346
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 527 of 877 (834712)
06-10-2018 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:24 PM


quote:

The diagram shows the deformation of the strata below the usual baseline. It had to have deformed since being horizontally laid down, that is, AFTER it was deposited, which is the only point I'm making.

The point that you are trying to make is that there was no deformation of any stratum until all the strata had been deposited. There is plenty of evidence against that in the diagram.

quote:

Can't beat the authoritative-sounding willful assertion of total absurdities so I guess there's nothing more for me to say.

Thatís your tactic and it isnít working.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 528 of 877 (834713)
06-10-2018 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:24 PM


The diagram shows the deformation of the strata below the usual baseline. It had to have deformed since being horizontally laid down, that is, AFTER it was deposited, which is the only point I'm making.

Well, it kind of follows that a layer could only be deformed after it was deposited.

But that isn't you only point. You are saying that all sedimentary layers were deposited before any deformation had occurred.

This is shown to be incorrect by the numerous contrary posts in this and other threads.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:24 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:45 PM edge has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29541
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 529 of 877 (834715)
06-10-2018 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 528 by edge
06-10-2018 3:40 PM


But that isn't you only point. You are saying that all sedimentary layers were deposited before any deformation had occurred.
This is shown to be incorrect by the numerous contrary posts in this and other threads.

Only by some really convoluted wacko reasoning. You can't get those neatly "tilted" rocks in a row that way.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by edge, posted 06-10-2018 3:40 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by edge, posted 06-10-2018 3:48 PM Faith has responded
 Message 531 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 3:49 PM Faith has responded
 Message 536 by edge, posted 06-10-2018 4:05 PM Faith has responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 530 of 877 (834716)
06-10-2018 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:45 PM


Only by some really convoluted wacko reasoning.

So, you can't refute it, therefor you just mutter disparaging comments.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:49 PM edge has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14346
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 531 of 877 (834717)
06-10-2018 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:45 PM


quote:

Only by some really convoluted wacko reasoning. You can't get those neatly "tilted" rocks in a row that way.

As you know, that isnít what weíve got.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 542 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:51 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29541
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 532 of 877 (834718)
06-10-2018 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by edge
06-10-2018 3:48 PM


I did refute it. You can't get the neat row of tilted rocks on your scenario.;
This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by edge, posted 06-10-2018 3:48 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by edge, posted 06-10-2018 3:52 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 535 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 3:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 533 of 877 (834719)
06-10-2018 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:49 PM


I did refute it.

Where? All I've seen is a bunch of baseless assertions and denials.

You can't get the neat row of tilted rocks on your scenario.;

Why not?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4180
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 534 of 877 (834721)
06-10-2018 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:28 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
Yes. And erosion causes other things. Such as flat plains where the material is deposited.

Absolutely irrelevant to the point I'm making and therefore nothing but obfuscation

It's crucial to the point you tried to make. You denied erosion causing flat surfaces. You listed some other things erosion causes, implying those are all that it causes. I pointed out that ain't so.

You can list other things caused by erosion till the cows come home, it still won't be a refutation of erosion causing flat surfaces. Or even relevant.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:30 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4180
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 535 of 877 (834722)
06-10-2018 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:49 PM


Your uninformed opinion is neither evidence nor refutation.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 536 of 877 (834723)
06-10-2018 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
06-10-2018 3:45 PM


Only by some really convoluted wacko reasoning. You can't get those neatly "tilted" rocks in a row that way.

How about this terrace? The rocks are standing on end and yet they are planed off as though with a knife.

What caused this?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 3:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:36 PM edge has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29541
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 537 of 877 (834725)
06-10-2018 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by JonF
06-10-2018 3:57 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
It's crucial to the point you tried to make. You denied erosion causing flat surfaces. You listed some other things erosion causes, implying those are all that it causes. I pointed out that ain't so.

You can list other things caused by erosion till the cows come home, it still won't be a refutation of erosion causing flat surfaces. Or even relevant.

It is screamingly irrelevant what other things erosion causes, flat surfaces or anything else, where is your head? The point is that the erosion that carved the phenomena I'm talking about occurred after the strata were all laid down, and what erosion does otherwise has absolutely nothing to do with that. Same point about tectonic deformation. In the pictures I posted with the erosion pictures, it all happened after the strata were all laid down. This has nothing to do with anything else. You are having some other discussion that is just irrelevant to this one.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 3:57 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 552 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 5:19 PM Faith has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17653
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 538 of 877 (834726)
06-10-2018 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 468 by Faith
06-08-2018 9:41 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
Faith writes:

Second, Faith does not consider the Supergroup to be part of the same block as the block from the Tapeats to the Kaibab, and it isn't clear whether her definition of "block" would place the Vishnu Schist as part of either block, but let's call them three separate blocks in Faith-land.

I think the Supergroup strata were laid down at the same time as the Paleozoic strata,...

What evidence causes you to think this?

...but they were in the line of the tectonic force that uptilted them and separated them from the upper block,...

I'm not sure what "in the line of the tectonic force" means, especially as something that can separate adjacent strata one from another. Could you define it?

And what caused this "line of tectonic force" to affect only the Supergroup layers but not the Paleozoic layers above it?

In the context of your Flood scenario, how do you explain the wild coincidence that the Supergroup layers date much older than the Paleozoic layers, and that that's also where the division between tilted and untilted layers occurs.

And just so you don't forget this important unanswered question, your Flood scenario has the Supergroup layers tilted while buried - where did the missing cubic miles of rock go? Please recall before answering your previous attempts at answers and how they were shown bogus, after which you went silent.

...becoming the cause of the lifting of the upper block.

It wasn't just the upper block (by which you mean the Paleozoic layers) that were lifted but the entire column, from Vishnu Schist to the Supergroup to the Paleozoic layers, as can be seen in your favorite diagram:

And it was all part of the general upheaval that cut the canyon,...

What is your evidence for a general upheaval?

It's a depressing idea trying to explain how I use the terms "block" and "unit" to you, since your misunderstanding them suggests a frame of mind I have little hope of communicating with.

Meaning that you can't define "block" because of the contradictory way you used it.

I really would like to avoid getting into another discussion like the one about the weird "half inch" between the Coconino and the Hermit formations that you took to be part of the Coconino.

It's understandable that you would like to avoid discussions where you end up in a train wreck, unable to respond to messages like my Message 1379 and my Message 1397.

But anyway. A block and a unit are synonymous as I've been using them, yes. They refer to any part of a stack of strata that is subjected to the same forces all together rather than separately, meaning erosion or tectonic deformation at least,...

In the context of strata, erosion is the wearing away of the exposed surface of strata and is not a force. Why can't you just say that exposed strata experience erosion? If you want to refer to the strata of a stratigraphic column that are exposed, why not just say "exposed strata"? How is saying "strata are eroded as a block" doing anything more than sowing confusion about what you're trying to say?

Saying "strata are deformed as a block" is at least comprehensible.

...and (usually but not always) where no other strata from the same stack are present, just the one block or unit.

This makes no sense. How are you defining stack? Why isn't it just another synonym for block or unit?

The pictures I posted in Message 419 of blocks of strata that were eroded and deformed as a unit were meant to be examples of what I mean. The point is to demonstrate that it s a rule that the strata were not eroded or deformed until they were all in place, which even partial blocks demonstrate.

I'm looking at Message 419 now, and I don't think you know what it is you're trying to say. It is self-evidently true that strata cannot erode or deform until they are "in place," i.e., until they exist. I have no idea what a "partial block" is.

They are all pictures of blocks of strata either eroded as a block or deformed as a block.

Except that they're not. Take this image for example:

You're presenting this as a block of strata that erode as a unit, but this is actually only a partial block, as we can see if we pan out a bit:

I hope this is explanatory but I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.

By your definition huge continuous stretches of the Earth are a single block because they're at the surface and they're eroding. For example, the entire Colorado Plateau is a single block because it is a block of eroding strata.

Exposed strata erode, but that doesn't make them part of the same block. I think what you've made clear is that it is sufficient to say that exposed strata erode. And everyone already knew that.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 468 by Faith, posted 06-08-2018 9:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:43 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29541
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 539 of 877 (834727)
06-10-2018 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by edge
06-10-2018 4:05 PM


Uh, tectonic pressure of course, what does that have to do with anything we are talking about?.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by edge, posted 06-10-2018 4:05 PM edge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 596 by Percy, posted 06-13-2018 7:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29541
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 540 of 877 (834728)
06-10-2018 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 538 by Percy
06-10-2018 4:32 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
By your definition huge continuous stretches of the Earth are a single block because they're at the surface and they're eroding. For example, the entire Colorado Plateau is a single block because it is a block of eroding strata.

Exposed strata erode, but that doesn't make them part of the same block. I think what you've made clear is that it is sufficient to say that exposed strata erode. And everyone already knew that.

I don't care if they erode or not, why does that matter? The point is they DIDN'T erode until they were all laid down as a block. How is that contradicted by the pictures? The strata are all neatly there, straight and flat as usual, the erosion having occurred to the whole block as a unit. And I've already said partial blocks make the same point, but you probably haven't got to that post yet so you are answering me out of turn as usual. As long as all that's available is a partial block, all of those examples show the same order of events: strata laid down followed by erosion, or strata laid down followed by tectonic deformation.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by Percy, posted 06-10-2018 4:32 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 4:47 PM Faith has responded
 Message 606 by Percy, posted 06-14-2018 9:17 AM Faith has responded

    
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