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Author Topic:   Motley Flood Thread (formerly Historical Science Mystification of Public)
PaulK
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Posts: 14021
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 541 of 877 (834730)
06-10-2018 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
06-10-2018 4:43 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
quote:

I don't care if they erode or not, why does that matter? The point is they DIDN'T erode until they were all laid down as a block. How is that contradicted by the pictures?

By the evidence of massive erosion occurring before all the strata were deposited. The tilted surface of the Supergroup was heavily eroded before the Tapeats was deposited (that’s where the “missing material” went). Edge has pointed out similar features in the cross-section of Britain in Message 522


This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:53 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
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Posts: 28587
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 542 of 877 (834731)
06-10-2018 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by PaulK
06-10-2018 3:49 PM


What you've got is deformation to strata as a unit or block, already laid down as a unit or block, in this case spanning all the time eras.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 3:49 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 544 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 4:57 PM Faith has responded
 Message 608 by Percy, posted 06-14-2018 9:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28587
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 543 of 877 (834732)
06-10-2018 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by PaulK
06-10-2018 4:47 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
We weren't talking about the Supergroup, why are you?:

There's nothing in the cross section of England that shows erosion before deposition.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 4:47 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 5:00 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14021
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 544 of 877 (834733)
06-10-2018 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 542 by Faith
06-10-2018 4:51 PM


quote:

What you've got is deformation to strata as a unit or block, already laid down as a unit or block, in this case spanning all the time eras.

The tilting of the Supergroup didn’t affect the layers above it. The simple sensible explanation is that they weren’t there. The cross-section of Britain shows other examples. And we do have evidence of massive erosion before all the strata were deposited.


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 Message 542 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:51 PM Faith has responded

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 Message 545 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:59 PM PaulK has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28587
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 545 of 877 (834734)
06-10-2018 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by PaulK
06-10-2018 4:57 PM


The rise over the Supergroup is evidence against your point. But stick to the Smith diagram, the Supergroup is another subject. I see no "evidence of massive erosion" before the strata were all laid down.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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PaulK
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Posts: 14021
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 546 of 877 (834735)
06-10-2018 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
06-10-2018 4:53 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
quote:

We weren't talking about the Supergroup, why are you?

You were talking about the Colorado plateau. The Supergroup is in that region.

quote:

There's nothing in the cross section of England that shows erosion before deposition

As Edge explained, there is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 5:02 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28587
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 547 of 877 (834736)
06-10-2018 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by PaulK
06-10-2018 5:00 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
Edge was talking gobbledygook. Let's see if you can do better.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 5:00 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 551 by PaulK, posted 06-10-2018 5:13 PM Faith has responded

    
Percy
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Posts: 17361
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 548 of 877 (834737)
06-10-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Faith
06-08-2018 9:48 PM


Re: The Smith cross-section
Faith writes:

You claimed that the Smith diagram shows a stratigraphic column that completely represents the geologic timescale from the Cambrian to the present, and that if he left anything out it would still be a complete representation. That's impossible. Could you stop cluttering up the thread with inane claims?

As I explained, it's the RANGE that matters to the point I'm making, not inclusiveness.

I understand, but then after making that clear you later doubled-down on your claim that the geologic timescale is completely represented from the Cambrian forward. If you don't want me to keep pointing out that that is wrong then don't keep saying it.

Though in the case of that cross section all the eras are represented in any case.

You originally said from the Cambrian to the present, but the Cambrian is a period, not an era, so if you're switching to eras as I suggested then you have to change it to the Paleozoic, in which case yes, this is true. But so what? You're not making any point for which that fact would be supporting evidence.

Interestingly and confusingly, the Cambrian is a period while the Precambrian is a supereon (according to Wikipedia).

Of course you are missing the point as usual. It demonstrates that the strata were tilted as one block which demonstrates that tectonic deformation occurred after they were all in place. That's the whole point of this.

Why do you think you're saying anything meaningful. It is a physical requirement that strata be "in place" before they can be part of deformation. How is this not something everyone already innately understands?

But I think I should stop trying to make such simple obvious points to you.

I don't know why you're explaining the bloody obvious either. As I said yesterday in Message 493:

Percy in Message 493 writes:

This is self-evidently true - why do you feel the need to say it. Of course strata cannot be deformed or eroded until they are "in place,", i.e., they exist.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Faith, posted 06-08-2018 9:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 550 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 5:10 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17361
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 549 of 877 (834738)
06-10-2018 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 471 by Faith
06-08-2018 11:27 PM


Faith writes:

Geo column/strat column, the distinction is trivial to me.

Opaque, even.

The whole idea that current sedimentation has anything to do with the geological column, or any stratigraphic column, is so foreign to me that even trying to remember to mention it may be impossible. But now that you've made an issue of it I hope I can make the effort if it really clarifies things.

Understanding what geology says is a prerequisite for criticizing what it says, don't you think? Most of the time you're flying blind.

--Percy


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 Message 471 by Faith, posted 06-08-2018 11:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28587
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 550 of 877 (834740)
06-10-2018 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 548 by Percy
06-10-2018 5:03 PM


Re: The Smith cross-section

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Percy, posted 06-10-2018 5:03 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14021
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 551 of 877 (834741)
06-10-2018 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Faith
06-10-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
The principle of cross-cutting relationships is simple. You can’t cut something that isn’t there.

Around the centre of the map (beneath and to the left of the “Jurassic” label) you will see that the lowest strata curve up - and stop. They have been cut by an erosional surface. The rocks immediately above do not follow the upward curve at all - they were clearly deposited on an irregular surface, but filled it in rather than following it.

Likewise, beneath the “Cretaceous” label, there are strata curving upwards, along the side of the buried peak, and strata above them that do not follow that upwards curve at all. Again they seem to be deposited on an irregular surface, and some of them pinch out before reaching the buried peak.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 5:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 564 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 8:19 PM PaulK has responded

    
JonF
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Posts: 4142
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 552 of 877 (834742)
06-10-2018 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 537 by Faith
06-10-2018 4:30 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
You have lost the thread.

Edge wrote "All of these are intermediate products. The ultimate product of erosion is a coastal plain." You replied with a list of things caused by erosion omitting "coastal plain". Implying that erosion does not produce flat surfaces.

OThat is what I am addressing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 4:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 5:29 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 28587
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 553 of 877 (834743)
06-10-2018 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 552 by JonF
06-10-2018 5:19 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
I'm not interested in the flat surfaces issue, I'm talking only about the order of events: strata laid down then eroded or deformed. Sorry if something else intervened that I missed but that is ALL I'm talking about and the erosion to a flat surface issue is utterly irrelevant to that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 552 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 5:19 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 554 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 5:40 PM Faith has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4142
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 554 of 877 (834744)
06-10-2018 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Faith
06-10-2018 5:29 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
I just replied to what you wrote. If you don't want to discuss a topic don't raise it. If
This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 5:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by Faith, posted 06-10-2018 5:42 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 28587
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 555 of 877 (834745)
06-10-2018 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 554 by JonF
06-10-2018 5:40 PM


Re: Strata eroded or deformed in blocks proves Geo Column / Time Scale over and done with
You "replied to what I wrote" OUT OF CONTEXT.

I need a break.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 554 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 5:40 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 557 by JonF, posted 06-10-2018 5:56 PM Faith has responded

    
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