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Author Topic:   Motley Flood Thread (formerly Historical Science Mystification of Public)
Faith
Member
Posts: 28930
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 826 of 877 (835447)
06-23-2018 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 825 by jar
06-23-2018 2:36 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
The Flood didn't carve the shapes, jar, it just laid down the strata.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by jar, posted 06-23-2018 2:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 827 by jar, posted 06-23-2018 2:49 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 835 by jar, posted 06-23-2018 7:54 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30519
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 827 of 877 (835449)
06-23-2018 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by Faith
06-23-2018 2:45 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
But you have not explained how your flood laid down the strata as expected. For example the first one is wind born cross bedded sand dunes. How did your flood produce wind blown cross bedded sand dunes?

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 828 of 877 (835451)
06-23-2018 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 822 by Faith
06-23-2018 2:26 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
(shakes head)
...
Far from the continental rifting that formed the Atlantic Ocean???? Great Britain is where the rifting had to have occurred, there is nothing between it and North America except the Atlantic Ocean, and that means the Atlantic Ridge developed right on what is now its western edge. Here I've got people telling me all this movement would have affected Noah who was floating on the sea over a mountain range in the Middle East at the time, but you are saying Great Britain which was where the continental rift occurred was not disturbed?

Okay, let's see. The Jurassic formations crop out in the southeastern part of Great Britain. It's over a hundred miles NW to Snowdon. Then you have to cross the Irish Sea and then all of Ireland. Then you have another hundred miles or so to the edge of the continental shelf.

Are we going to argue now about what is 'close' and what is 'far'.

This goes beyond silly, Faith. First of all, you don't know the geography, then you do not understand the tectonics of a passive continental margin. There is not nearly the 'bashing and crashing' of a convergent boundary, mountain-building event.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 822 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 2:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 829 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 3:12 PM edge has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 28930
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 829 of 877 (835453)
06-23-2018 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 828 by edge
06-23-2018 3:06 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
For an event of such magnitude it's close enough.

But I do find it interesting that you are playing down the effect. Makes it sound like if the continents split in our time with our population it might be a headline but nothing particularly important.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 828 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 3:06 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 3:17 PM Faith has responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 830 of 877 (835454)
06-23-2018 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by Faith
06-23-2018 3:12 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
For an event of such magnitude it's close enough.
But I do find it interesting that you are playing down the effect. Makes it sound like if the continents split in our time with our population it might be a headline but nothing particularly important.

I reiterate. You have no idea what happens at a passive continental margin, do you?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 3:12 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 831 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 3:18 PM edge has not yet responded
 Message 832 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 3:34 PM edge has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 28930
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 831 of 877 (835456)
06-23-2018 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 830 by edge
06-23-2018 3:17 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
No.; Why don't you enlighten poor stupid me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 3:17 PM edge has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28930
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 832 of 877 (835460)
06-23-2018 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 830 by edge
06-23-2018 3:17 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
And by the way, you are apparently agreeing with me that the strata were all laid down together and deformed together as a unit, just as it appears on the cross section, since they are all lying in the same direction and there is no particular disturbance during the Jurassic when supposedly Pangaea broke up. So that break-up didn't interrupt the continuing deposition, and the quite dramatic deformation that is present now, the whole stack that was once vertical now flat on its side and all tilted in the same direction, occurred after the continental split. I wonder what caused it then if the split wasn't enough of a jolt to do it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 3:17 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 833 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 4:15 PM Faith has responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 833 of 877 (835464)
06-23-2018 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 832 by Faith
06-23-2018 3:34 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
And by the way, you are apparently agreeing with me that the strata were all laid down together and deformed together as a unit, just as it appears on the cross section, since they are all lying in the same direction and there is no particular disturbance during the Jurassic when supposedly Pangaea broke up. So that break-up didn't interrupt the continuing deposition, and the quite dramatic deformation that is present now, the whole stack that was once vertical now flat on its side and all tilted in the same direction, occurred after the continental split. I wonder what caused it then if the split wasn't enough of a jolt to do it.

You really don't understand. I clearly stated three things.

First, there was an older orogeny prior to the Jurassic. Therefor, this did not affect Jurassic rocks.

Second, the Jurassic section is too far from the continental rift to have suffered significant deformation. Furthermore, I wouldn't expect much deformation from the Jurassic rifting.

Third, there is erosion at the top of the Jurassic sediments causing valleys to be formed and later filled in the the Lower Green Sand.

These are all contrary to your fantasy story. I fail to see how you could be so confused.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 832 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 3:34 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 837 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 10:26 PM edge has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5874
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 834 of 877 (835475)
06-23-2018 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 813 by Faith
06-23-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
Faith writes:

Most obviously the result of the Flood or the tectonic events afterward.

God floods the world, kills pretty much everything on it, then releases a pair of animals from a few species that are intended to repopulate the earth. Then immediately after starts a bunch of tectonic events to make the impossible recovery even more impossible? Is that reasonable?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 813 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 12:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30519
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 835 of 877 (835480)
06-23-2018 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by Faith
06-23-2018 2:45 PM


How did the flood lay down wind blown sand dunes?
How did the flood lay down wind blown cross bedded sand dunes?

Once you admit that the flood could not lay down cross bedded wind blown sand dunes we can move on to the next thing that was impossible for the flood.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 2:45 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Pollux
Member
Posts: 237
Joined: 11-13-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 836 of 877 (835483)
06-23-2018 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 805 by Faith
06-23-2018 11:35 AM


Large Igneous provinces not a problem?
Large Igneous Provinces are the result of outflows of tens, hundreds, or thousands of thousands of cubic km of lava. i.e.10,000 to in the case of the Deccan and Siberian Traps several million each. Associated with the lava would be equally immense quantities of noxious gases such as H2S and SO2.
A fissure eruption from Laki on Iceland in 1783 produced 14 cubic km of lava in a few months, with the associated gases causing weather disruption over a lot of the Northern hemisphere.

Total lava eruption from all LIPs totals well in excess of 100,000,000 c km. So how long have we got to produce that in Faith's Flood Paradigm (FFP)? !0.000 Lakis a year for 1000 years? Or 100,000 a year for 100 years? Or 1,000,000 a year for 10 years? Without adding in the rest of the volcanism required at the same time in FFP, the effect would be noticeable, such as the extinction of most, if not all, life that survived the Flood, and there would be a visible record on the Earth.
Then there is the pesky habit radiometric ages have of being younger for the layers of lava that are on top compared to the lower, and sometimes erosion layers between successive flows which show there is significant time between flows.

Seems to me LIPs do provide a problem for FFP.

Standard geology spreads the development of LIPs over up to millions of years. The Siberian and Deccan Traps seem to have contributed to mass extinctions by way of weather and gas effects.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 805 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 11:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 838 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 10:29 PM Pollux has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28930
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 837 of 877 (835484)
06-23-2018 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 833 by edge
06-23-2018 4:15 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
You are right I have no idea what you are talking about or how it applies to the topic. No idea how the orogeny explains anything, or whether the orogeny even exists. And again, if the rifting didn't cause the deformation, which occurred so dramatically to the entire stack and not just up to the Jurassic, what did?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 833 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 4:15 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 840 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 10:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28930
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 838 of 877 (835485)
06-23-2018 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 836 by Pollux
06-23-2018 9:55 PM


Re: Large Igneous provinces not a problem?
I can't accept such an explanation of something in the past no matter how logical it seems since it can't be proved, it can only be hypothesized, and there have to be mitigating factors that you are not taking into account. I'll stick to what I know I can prove.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Pollux, posted 06-23-2018 9:55 PM Pollux has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 839 by Pollux, posted 06-23-2018 10:40 PM Faith has responded
 Message 842 by edge, posted 06-23-2018 10:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pollux
Member
Posts: 237
Joined: 11-13-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 839 of 877 (835486)
06-23-2018 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 838 by Faith
06-23-2018 10:29 PM


Re: Large Igneous provinces not a problem?
The presence and size of the LIPs are observable facts. Current Physics and Chemistry explain them. If they happened during or after the Flood, FFP has to postulate at least a time frame for them and a prediction of what effect they would produce in the geological record.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 838 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 10:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 841 by Faith, posted 06-23-2018 10:47 PM Pollux has responded

    
edge
Member
Posts: 4392
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 840 of 877 (835487)
06-23-2018 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 837 by Faith
06-23-2018 10:26 PM


Re: Tectonic bashing and crashing
You are right I have no idea what you are talking about or how it applies to the topic. No idea how the orogeny explains anything. And again, if the rifting didn't cause the deformation, which occurred so dramatically to the entire stack and not just up to the Jurassic, what did?

It didn't happen to the entire section. If you look carefully at the actual folds shown in the diagram,you would see that the folded (not just tilted) rocks are pre-Devonian. As I mentioned before, they were deformed in the early Paleozoic by the Caledonian Orogeny that occurred when northern Europe collided with eastern Canada and Greenland.

Oh ... right .... that couldn't have happened (according to Faith)!


This message is a reply to:
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