Christianity and the End Times

Not so much wrong as simply not honest even with themselves. Delusional might be more apt than wrong. (maybe even that is inaccurate and frightened might be the best description. They do not want their base challenged, it's scary and really unpleasant to face that and so simply refuse to consider throwing the dogma away.) What does "alive" even mean when talking about something supernatural? When you say stuff like "alive today" are you not imposing material and evidential characteristics to a non-material, non evidential concept? As you point out, my position is supported by what is actually written in the Bible stories not by the creations of the apologists. Ignorance is very often wide spread.Yes; most likely both. Then actually read the Bible Phat. It really is that simple. Then read what has been written over the last couple thousand years. Nothing I present is New.Edited by jar, : revise first answer towards frightened more than delusional

No those are your words not mine. Not "regardless of reality," more like "regardless of human opinion." The Bible is accurate about reality, and if fallen minds come up with something that contradicts it we know the contradiction is wrong and seek to reconcile it. It's not "reality" we are dealing with in that case, just false opinion. The Bible guides us to the truth but only if we reject what contradicts it. You know NOTHING. No you are an unreliable hearer.; Ears to hear but cannot hear. You could learn something that is unfamiliar to you that millions of others know, but you insist on knowing only what your spiritual blindness and deafness llimit you to knowing.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The apologists you so crudely denigrate are honest men who seek to make the Bible understandable to others. You don't seem to know it but what you are doing is apologetics with your absurd objections to "apologists." You are trying to persuade others of YOUR view of the Bible after all, and that is what apologetics does. All you are saying is your apologetics is right and the traditional orthodox apologists are wrong, not only wrong but dishonest and worse.

Not quite true Faith as you would admit if you had even a smidgen of honesty. What I do is point to what the Bible actually says and do not try to "interpret" anything.I have never doubted the apologists believe what they claim but that has nothing to do with whether or not they are being honest.

But this is incredibly nave. EVERYBODY who thinks they understand what they read thinks they are understanding "what it actually says" and are not imposing anything on it. And there is no such thing as reading anything without interpreting it. Of course you're interpreting.You think your reading is the correct one. Big deal. So does everybody. Only you have the gall to call others who read it differently than you do dishonest just because they read it differently. You can argue that your reading is the correct one but not by claiming you are the only one who gets "what it actually says" and doesn't interpret it. We who know that there is only one Flood and only one creation story know we are reading it correctly and that you are wrong.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

No Faith that is not true. I simply report what is written. I do not interpret it or make up shit to explain away the factual errors, contradictions, variations in accounts, editing and absurdities. Yet the fact remains that there is more than one creation story in the Bible and more than one flood story. Those are simply facts Faith and cannot be disputed by any honest person.Edited by jar, : there is an "e" in one

Leftist is not an ad hominem, it is a worldview, and it surprised me that he used it. But of course you pick on that word when I had hardly noticed it, and ignore the point which is his good description of the attitude of the "scholars." Yeah, writings which he refers to in his opening statement, which he says inspired him to write his own account. Sheesh. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Yes you do interpret, there is no way to avoid it, and there is only one creation account and one Flood story.

I dunno. You probably just don't notice the signs, such as this one"Italian bishop says he’s ready to turn all the churches into mosques to aid the cause of mass Muslim migration"As for doctrine, I don't know about Islam but doctrine is no obstacle to this Pope at least. I'm sure he can find a way to blend with Islam if that's his desire. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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I dunno. You probably just don't notice the signs, such as this one

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"Italian bishop says he’s ready to turn all the churches into mosques to aid the cause of mass Muslim migration

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I admit to not being a gullible idiot. Show me a site where I can actually find what the Bishop said in context and we’ll see. But I’m hardly going to trust propaganda sites.

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As for doctrine, I don't know about Islam but doctrine is no obstacle to this Pope at least. I'm sure he can find a way to blend with Islam if that's his desire.

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Your ignorance is truly amazing. Do you really think,that the Pope could abandon the Divinity of Christ just like that ?

What is being done here is simply labeling a view leftist as if that is all that is needed to discredit it. That is the essence of what an ad hominem argument is. It is not an insult, but an attempt to discredit by applying a label in place of addressing a position on the merits.And in fact, there is absolutely no attempt to even demonstrate that the criticised viewpoint is "left". It is a viewpoint that differs from that of the author who spits out the label before dismissing it entirely. No points for that.

Right. So Adam was made from dust, Eve from his rib, snakes talk, men were giants, people lived for hundreds of years, Noah built an impossible ship and filled it with animals from all over the world, the world and everything was drowned by God and the Earth and universe is 6,000 years old. To name but a few of story telling myths in the bible that you believe to be literally true.You believe that everything written in the bible is literally true and if we find evidence in reality that it is not, then we are wrong. Do you not? I know you're batshit crazy. My eyes and ears are working fine; lets see what you've got. You forget that I was born a Christian and know everything you think you know. I then grew up and found out that it's simply a group delusion that is gradually evaporating.

I really don't know if deep down I doubt or not. I DO know that I question. If I ever stopped praying, it would confirm that I had doubts.

That was my point, your "evidence" is an illusion.
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Only when it is something that is definitely going to happen, which isn't the case with the if-then example you gave.