Christianity and the End Times

Yet the fact remains that I post what is actually written while you can only present the dogma of your Cult.

I don't think it's even very deep down. It seems pretty clear that you're whistling in the dark.

And you never answer. It's like claiming you can bake a cake; until you actually bake one, nobody is going to believe you can do it - and it's going to be hard to believe anything else you say too.

Again, that is simply misrepresenting my position.First, I do not say that the characters cannot be known since in many cases there are descriptions of the character just as I can know Hank Morgan (Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court) or Ishmael (only surviving crewman of the Pequod).That should have been clear since I have discussed the character of the God in Genesis 1 versus 2&3 versus the God of Exodus versus the God who wrestles with Jacob with you many times for over a decade now.The issue is that the descriptions are not consistent and in many cases are mutually exclusive so it is necessary to synthesize a God WE create if there is any hope of creating a uniform character.

Look! He Has No Clothes analogous to "Look! God lied! The snake was truthful!"

I've no doubt we define the character in our minds. You have defined the "god character" as well as the snake simply by reporting what was written and using that as your sole allowance towards defining belief. The claim that much of mainstream Christianity lies to itself defending their belief is arrogant. however. Unlike the crowd in Hans Christian Andersons poem, mainstream Christianity is not simply ignoring the obvious. Where they differ from you is that they have allowed themselves to believe in a character that they wanted to accept but which you wanted to reject.

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The Emperors New Clothes Everybody had confirmation bias over his suit except for the small lad who saw the obvious....except that in this case I don't believe that you and ringo see anything obvious. You guys may deny it but you want for folks to have to do it themselves and would laugh at a God Who helped you. You too create the God that you want. You are too proud to allow Jesus to help you. You have allowed your logic to blind you to any possibility that He even can...you dont even attempt to talk with Him (correct me if I'm wrong) and you preach a gospel of social responsibility and hard work.

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Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

Why do you keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? We DO have to do it ourselves. Even Jesus understood that. Why do you work so hard at defying what He said? I'd fall out of my chair in surprise.

I don't doubt that you believe that nonsense but where is the evidence we would do that?

It seems that you need to think this. I say that because you - and Faith - keep repeating this rubbish. Why would anybody laugh at a god in front of us? Why do you think/feel that? Is it because you have to? Do your opponents have to be total inhuman to justify your own belief. Really?

Listened again to the last statements on that video I posted back in Message 417 of a sermon on The Reliability of the Bible by a Dr. Josh Moody, because he did such a nice job of describing the great value of the Bible to believers as God speaking to us. This time I transcribed what he said:From about 31:59: And just to round off the subject, here are a few lines from Psalm 19 about the great worth of scripture: It's supernatural. God speaks to us through it more often than He speaks to us in any other way. Since many read it who don't have such experiences, though believers do all the time, it has to be that having the Holy Spirit is necessary to hearing from God in this way, meaning you have to be born again.But since this is a traditional orthodox pastor describing such things, and believers know what he is talking about, those who don't believe really ought to consider that maybe there is a spiritual state that makes such experiences possible instead of just dismissing it all.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

What you're saying is that you have to be insane to hear the voices. It's just magical thinking and people making up stuff to suit their need to believe.

If the Bible was really so great or even if you really believed it was that great you wouldn’t keep twisting it to try and fit your doctrine.So it’s all really empty boasting, like your claims to be making great arguments. Paying lip service to an idea isn’t the same as truly believing it.It’s like Matthew 23:27-28 except you can’t even manage the appearance of righteousness - even there you’re fooling yourself.

I am open to there being a spiritual state that makes such experiences possible instead of dismissing them.But then, what's next?Let's say I'm not (currently) able to access this spiritual state.
Let's say you and Phat and many other Christians are.So, I'm sitting in my non-spiritual-accessible state.
I believe that you and Phat and many other Christians may have access to a spiritual state that I cannot fathom.I look at you and Phat and all the other Christians with access to the spiritual state to see if there's any difference to the way your lives go than the way my life goes.
And the answer is... you and Phat and all the other Christians with access to the spiritual state are... perfectly average.Some of you are great, some not-so-great.
Some of you are nice people, some not-so-nice.
Some of you are rich, some not-so-rich.
Some of you are happy, some not-so-happy.
Some of you are smart, some not-so-smart.
Some of you make claims of the afterlife and other things that cannot be confirmed, some do not.And it looks exactly as average as all the people that you-and-Phat-and-all-the-other-Christians-with-access-to-the-spiritual-state say do not have access to the spiritual state.Non-spiritual-state people are also perfectly average:Some of them are great, some not-so-great.
Some of them are nice people, some not-so-nice.
Some of them are rich, some not-so-rich.
Some of them are happy, some not-so-happy.
Some of them are smart, some not-so-smart.
Some of them make claims of the afterlife and other things that cannot be confirmed, some do not.So, here I am in my non-spiritual-state.You say you have access to a spiritual state that does... absolutely nothing to separate you from any other average person on the planet.To me, your spiritual state (even if it does exist) does not seem like anything anyone should be aiming for anyway.I only have this one life. I would like to be more than average, if possible.
This spiritual-state you claim to have is left... wanting. Just like many other people's claims of special-status they have that they cannot verify.Special-status claims that can be verified, however... like being a doctor, or serving in the military, or being a genius inventor, or being a selfless, loving parent... these (and other) special-states-that-can-be-verified all provide much information that show they can take you to places beyond the average.Therefore, why wouldn't I look more to the shown-to-be-above-average special states for guidance rather than then shown-to-be-just-as-average-as-anyone-else "special state" claims?

The spiritual state isn't supposed to be about us, it's about the Bible itself and the ability to experience it is given by the Holy Spirit who is God. The point is you might consider that God is real and that by believing in Him we can experience Him speaking to us through His word. I don't know what it is you have in mind that would put a person above average but if you fit the description there is nothing stopping you from becoming that above-average believer in God.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Nobody is "hearing voices," that is not how God communicates through His word.You are the one making up stuff when you keep insisting Christian belief comes from aq "need" to believe. An awful lot of us were very resistant at first to what we now believe, came "kicking and screaming" as I think C.S. Lewis described himself, were drawn against our will. You can't speak for any of us and it's very rude of you to think you can.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So enlighten us, how does he do it? And yet you admit to reading and trying many religions until you found the one you first started with. Seek and ye shall find. You forget that I was once 'one of us', so yes I can speak as someone who knows what Christian belief is. A reinforced delusion.