Christianity and the End Times

I know this sounds crackpot, and perhaps it is, but in the last few weeks I've had this, well, conviction of sorts, that the Rapture is almost here, that it could happen very very soon. If it hasn't happened by the end of September I'll calm down but I keep having something like signs and portents in my own life that I read as its imminence. I know we aren't to know the "day or the hour" but surely we are to be aware of its imminence as it comes closer. For instance we are to encourage one another as we see it approaching. Jesus gives us the parable of the fig tree to suggest that we will know the season at least. Prophecy may be opaque and indecipherable for centuries but just before its fulfillment we should be getting signs that it is near, and more certain understanding of what it is saying.It is this sense of its imminence that has me thinking about the Tribulation period for those who will miss the Rapture, and what I should do to warn people. Of course what I find is that nobody wants to listen, just as "in the days of Noah."Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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That is not exactly what I said.

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I don’t see any significant distinctions.

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But I think my point was that the phrase "on the day when the Son of Man is revealed" should be some rationale to insist that there could only be one rapture or that there is no rapture.

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That isn’t much of a point. The question is not whether there might be a Rapture that isn’t mentioned the question is whether the text does mention a Rapture - indeed whether it mentions a Secret Rapture before the Tribulation. Luke 17:22-37 describes the Second Coming - after the Tribulation - and does not mention any Rapture.

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I didn't say that there is literally only ONE VOICE heard. Come on

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You didn’t, but Revelation 14:2 says that a voice - singular - is heard from Heaven.The assumption that it refers to the voices of the 144,000 is just that - an assumption. And one that does not fit too well with the text.

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I see in most of your other comments a knee-jerk contrarian attitude.

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Then you are seeing things which are not there.This is a debate site. When your entire case is based on questionable - at best - interpretations you must expect to be challenged.

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But that the actual word rapture is not mentioned, is true.

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That the text does not even clearly say that the 144,000 are in heaven is also true.

See you in the New Year, Faith.

Just a warning, jaywill. This one (PaulK) is a worthy opponent...and I do mean opponent....he is an unbeliever. I will say that his arguments are well presented, however...he indeed does study the text quite well. If you wish to engage him in arguments, you would do well to pray for him also. He is an old hand here at EvC..been around even before me.And a word for the peanut gallery watching these exchanges: Believers by and large learn their interpretations of Biblical prophecy and apologetics from other like-minded people such as themselves (in regards to who Jesus was and is and the meaning of the Bible) whereas both unbelievers (and jar, who somehow is a believer of sorts) use the plain text as written, no assumption of inerrancy or overarching purpose from God, and no ultimate motive or aim apart from causing people to question or even doubt what they have been taught. Though frustrating at times, it forces me to reexamine what I have been taught as obvious and to cause my prayer life to bolster my faith rather than the strict literal evidence that is attempting to be laid down. In conclusion, the only purpose in engaging in a Bible Study with an unbeliever is to force me to realize that I am not fighting or disagreeing with them so much as I am being tested as to my own character and motivations as a believer.That's my 2 cents. Oh and one more thing----what is the dictionary definition of a contrarian? Because i always refer to ringo as one! Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Notice that she isnt getting mad and using CAPITAL letters as often. She must really not want to get left behind...though I would argue that nobody does....even unbelievers! How are you, Stile? You are always one of my favorite unbelievers to talk with. You sometimes make more sense with your logic than many believers I know. Oohrah for free Will! What is your take on the distant possibility that a Rapture of sorts could occur? Any comments? Edited by Phat, : added quote

It isn't about "not wanting to listen". When Matthew and Luke compare the end times to the days of Noah, they're talking about eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, buying, selling, planting, building - business as usual. In Genesis, the other people didn't get any warning so not wanting to listen doesn't enter into it.

They had over a hundred years of warning since it took that long to build the ark. This is figured from the timings of the ages of Noah and his sons somehow. And Noah is called a "preacher of righteousness" and a preacher isn't going to stay silent for over a hundred years while he's building an ark to save people from a coming worldwide Flood. Certainly they knew, but they ignored him. Probably called him a crackpot.

I agree.I do think Faith is very genuine.
She believes a rapture may very well be imminent. And she wants everyone to turn to her God in order to avoid a poor fate.
That's kind of a nice thing, really.I think her thoughts on it coming sooner or later are more a symptom of her age, though.As intelligent, thinking humans - as we get old, we become more aware of our mortality and possible death. It can be one of the scariest things people have to deal with. If we have a belief system that tells us we will be taken care of by God and a rapture will occur in the future, and a cultural system that ingrains us with a desire not to "miss anything," we end up with a whole bunch of aging, afraid people who don't want to miss the rapture - and therefore think it certainly must be coming "soon." I will admit that if a rapture were to happen, I would not want to be left behind.
Just like I'll admit that if Santa delivered presents, I would want to get one.But I'm not going to be a good person and believe in Santa in order to get presents.
Just like I'm not going to be a good person and believe in God in order to avoid a rapture.I'm going to try and be a good person because I choose to want to try and help others instead of hurt them.I'm not going to waste time on attempting to avoid a rapture or get presents because I don't believe either will ever happen - and that time can be spent more wisely on trying to be a better person here and now. Really good.
Middle age (I'm 40 in October) seems to agree with me well. So far, anyway "Of sorts" can mean a lot of things.Of the religious sort based on ancient prophecy? It will never happen, from any religion based on any ancient prophecy. Such things have proven themselves wrong about reality time and time again. This is not going to be the time they get it right.Of the apocalyptic sort based on human destruction? Possibly even attributed to a religious ancient prophecy? A possibility exists here.
I still doubt it.
-but this is based on my experience of civilization being resilient and making progress.
-of course, history shows many, many times where civilizations thought they were resilient and making progress until disaster struck and destroyed them on a level that could be called "raptur-ish."So a certain level of serious consideration should be given at all times or any time.
When giving serious consideration, though, it's important to base your thoughts on things that can be anchored in reality as much as possible. Otherwise, you could easily be swept away in the fear/worry/anxiousness of shared imagination. Kind of like ouija boards... just on a larger scale. It's pretty easy to rob a house when all the people on the inside are terrified of the ghosts they just "contacted." We have to find ways to focus on solving real problems - not the problems that only exist in our minds. Just the ramblings of a middle-aged man

It's not almost here and it won't happen by October. Or ever.But I predict that when it doesn't happen it won't change a thing for you.

Well, if it DID happen soon, if the Christians just happened suddenly to disappear from the planet in a mass exodus, what effect do you think it might have on you? Would you just rationalize it away or would it make a believer of you? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

But he wasn't trying to save people from the flood. He was only trying to save his family.

I'd thank th Lord that he's made the earth a better place 😇 If it really happened in such an obvious way, I'd do what I always do when the evidence is so strong, I'd change my mind.That's the difference between rationalists and irrationalists.

where is that in scripture, ringo?