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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1336 of 1581 (839540)
09-10-2018 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1331 by jaywill
09-10-2018 2:14 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:

I would like you to apply your axiom to this lecture to see if any of your views on moon landings are affected. Maybe you have some essentially religious beliefs about the claims of scientists at NASA. Maybe you piously preserve some modern superstitions.

Has Man Ever Set Foot on the Moon?

Yet another of your posts demonstrating your utter ignorance of reality.

Not only has man set foot on the moon, man has placed tools on the moon that have been in use since 1962. They are the several different components of the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment; arrays of mirrors placed in various points during three different Apollo missions and two different Lunokhod missions. They are used to reflect laser pulses from the Earth and so their precise locations are known. The time it takes for the return pulses gives very precise measurements of the distance between the origin site and the moons surface.

That man has set foot on the moon is not a belief but rather a conclusion based on the overwhelming evidence available to anyone who is not willfully ignorant or utterly dishonest.

AbE:

And of course, just another example of you trying to palm the pea, con the rubes, change the subject, move the goal posts and attempting to misdirect the audiences attention in the vain hope they will not notice you have failed to address any of the issues pointed out in your nonsense.

Edited by jar, : see AbE.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1331 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 2:14 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1338 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 8:26 AM jar has responded

  
jaywill
Member
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1337 of 1581 (839544)
09-10-2018 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1300 by Faith
09-08-2018 1:32 PM


Re: Christ - the main character
quote:
I don't remember that coming up but clearly it does refer to the Lord's ascension to the throne of God and not His descent to earth.

Faith,

Revelation chapter 5 shows the scene in heaven at Christ's ascension. Christ is the God-man who is now the preeminent Head of all the universe. There is a Man at the peak of authority of all creation.

John serves a similar purpose as Daniel did during the Babylonian Captivity. He fasted and prayed that God would reveal what would be the future of Israel and the world. God answered his petitions and gave him such clear prophecy.

John, similarly, was the last surviving of the original apostles and was deeply concerned for the future of the church. He wept when no one in heaven or earth could open the sealed scroll in the hands of God.

Then One was found qualified to know the contents of the scroll sealed with seven seals - the Lion - Lamb Christ. No philosopher, sage, wise person in all the world could open the secret of God's administration over the universe. But Christ was qualified.

And I saw on the right hand of Him who sits upon the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to upen the scroll and to break its seals?

And no one in heaven nor on earth nor under the earth was able to open the scroll or look into it.

And I wept much because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or look into it. (Rev. 5:1-3)

No one had the qualification, wisdom, authority or ability to understand the meaning of God's eternal purpose. No matter how wise they were no one was found dead or alive. But Jesus Christ is the one exception. He prevailed to be worthy to know and the meaning of the plan of God the Creator.

And one of the elders said to me, Do not weep, behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so that He may open the scroll and its seven seals.

The elder here is not one of the elders of Israel. Nor is he one of the elders of the Christian church. Rather he is one of the twenty four elders which represent the elders of the universe - the oldest angelic creatures of the universe.

The elder of creation points John to Christ the Lion of the tribe of Judah. He is a fierce fighter for God's interests as ferocious lion against the Devil. He is the Root of King David.

Yet it is so interesting that when John turned to look he saw a Lamb. The elder said the Lion has prevailed and John looked and saw a Lamb.

And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as having just been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God. sent forth into all the earth. (vs. 6)

The Lamb stands for the Redeemer. Christ died to redeem man from the curse of the law of God before which all people are guilty. He is that Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world.

Toward God's enemies He is a Lion. Toward God's redeemed He is the Lamb. He is the Lion / Lamb. He is the Fighting Warrior and the Redeemer freshly slain and resurrected.

His standing after being freshly slain means His death and resurrection. What a Man. Toward us sinners He is our crucified and risen Redeemer. Toward God's enemies Christ is the devouring Lion the fighting King of the kingly tribe of Judah.

He will prevail for Israel and for the church against enemies within and without.
What follows in the whole of Revelation are what comes out of the opened scroll which Christ unlocks and reveals.

There is something more about the seven eyes which I'll speak to in another post.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1300 by Faith, posted 09-08-2018 1:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1338 of 1581 (839546)
09-10-2018 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1336 by jar
09-10-2018 6:54 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
quote:
Yet another of your posts demonstrating your utter ignorance of reality.

Your post told me NOTHING that I didn't already know (except maybe the term Lunokhod ).

I know about the lasers and the reflectors. I was around 19 when I saw the first TV shots of a moon walk. Were you alive then ?

And lasers are used to bounce off of the moon without reflectors too.

I have some doubts.
And I am still weighing the pros and cons because I could be wrong.

I don't think you watched the lecture.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1336 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 6:54 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1339 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 9:08 AM jaywill has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1339 of 1581 (839547)
09-10-2018 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1338 by jaywill
09-10-2018 8:26 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
There was no lecture, there was only a carny midway snake oil sales pitch.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1338 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 8:26 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1340 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 4:27 PM jar has responded
 Message 1343 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 4:50 PM jar has responded
 Message 1347 by jaywill, posted 09-11-2018 7:47 PM jar has responded

  
jaywill
Member
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1340 of 1581 (839576)
09-10-2018 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1339 by jar
09-10-2018 9:08 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
You cannot be trusted at all.

There was enough anomalies and inconsistencies about photographers to keep professional movie makers and photographers searching for explanations.

And the discussion on the Van Allen Radiation Belts was not snake oil talk.

The Russians said they'll go to the moon once they solve that problem.
What? It was supposed to have been solved.

After Lindberg crossed the Atlantic for decades jets and jumbo jets made the trip. Decades after a trips to the moon ... nothing in the way of returning.

And the US lost the technology NASA tells us.
The US technology being "lost" ?

Maybe that's your snake oil from NASA.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1339 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 9:08 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1342 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 4:42 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11403
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 1341 of 1581 (839577)
09-10-2018 4:41 PM


Making Christians Look Crazy
The whole moon landing argument makes our side look bad, to be honest. As for the Rapture, I wont rule it out entirely but i'm not worried about setting any dates. I just try and do the best I can where I'm at.

Of course I'm thought to be crazy also...which I will concur with.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Replies to this message:
 Message 1345 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2018 5:18 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1342 of 1581 (839578)
09-10-2018 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1340 by jaywill
09-10-2018 4:27 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:

There was enough anomalies and inconsistencies about photographers to keep professional movie makers and photographers searching for explanations.

There were enough fools willing to pay to see the movies so they created a carny sideshow.

jaywill writes:

And the discussion on the Van Allen Radiation Belts was not snake oil talk.

Of course it is, just like all your attempted marketing of the dogma of your cult is snake oil.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1340 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 4:27 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1343 of 1581 (839579)
09-10-2018 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1339 by jar
09-10-2018 9:08 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
Jar,

Can you answer these questions if you watched the lecture?

Which modern day US president doubted that the moon walk pictures were authentic ?

How many years has the speaker been working on this problem of the authenticity of the moon landings ?

How many Russian astronauts probably went into space before Uri Gigaran (the "first" man in space) ? How many did the researcher count ?

What happened to the Russian astronaut who traveled to space before Gigaran ?

The whistle blower astronaut who died in an accident, what was his name ?

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1339 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 9:08 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1346 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 5:54 PM jaywill has not yet responded
 Message 1363 by jaywill, posted 09-13-2018 9:19 AM jaywill has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6229
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1344 of 1581 (839582)
09-10-2018 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1326 by jaywill
09-09-2018 7:38 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
Jaywill writes:

So your implied answer is that Jesus of Nazareth was not a person in history.

I think it a little more likely than not that he existed as a person. There were many of them around at the time. What is said about him in the book of stories is almost entirely fiction.

No such person ever lived at all ?

As above.

Please note, my comments about your book are not simply about the part relating to your guy; pretty much all my criticisms so far have related to snakes, floods, creation, giants etc. Points you consistently ignore.

You observed that no such person as Jesus of Nazareth ever lived

Don't make stuff up.

though we have more reason to hold he lived then we do that Alexander the Great lived or surely as much that Julius Caesar lived.

That's just cliched bullshit. Rebutted a million times.

Wherever you got your education you should go get your money back.

And try not to be a dickhead. It'll take some effort.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1326 by jaywill, posted 09-09-2018 7:38 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6229
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1345 of 1581 (839586)
09-10-2018 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1341 by Phat
09-10-2018 4:41 PM


Re: Making Christians Look Crazy
Phat writes:

The whole moon landing argument makes our side look bad, to be honest.

Crazies don't usually limit their craziness to a single area - they really go for it. It happens when you abandon reason. It's always the give away - they're fruit loops.

As for the Rapture, I wont rule it out entirely but i'm not worried about setting any dates. I just try and do the best I can where I'm at.

You won't rule anything out will you Phat no matter how daft? You won't rule it out even after Faith's failed prophecy. And all the others.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1341 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 4:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1346 of 1581 (839594)
09-10-2018 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1343 by jaywill
09-10-2018 4:50 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
I did not watch the silly video and do not watch silly videos.

Nor do any of those issues have jack shit to do with either the topic (something you seem unable to address) or whether or not anyone has ever gone to the moon but are great examples of the absurdity of the Cult of Ignorance.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1343 by jaywill, posted 09-10-2018 4:50 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1347 of 1581 (839644)
09-11-2018 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1339 by jar
09-10-2018 9:08 AM


Re: Back to the End Times
quote:
I did not watch the silly video and do not watch silly videos.

So you gave a lying impression at first that you saw it.

quote:
There was no lecture, there was only a carny midway snake oil sales pitch

You have now confirmed that YOU "snake oiled" YOUR false impression about yourself and the level of familiarity with the LECTURE.

It would have been easier to just admit up front that you didn't watch it.
It also would have been more to your integrity.

Not much of a surprise.

Padlock your head. I don't care.

I could be wrong about it.
It is obvious that to even some who vote YES that some of the footage is
staged.

I keep abreast of both side of the debate.

Its not as important as eternal salvation.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1339 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 9:08 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1348 by jar, posted 09-11-2018 8:58 PM jaywill has responded
 Message 1361 by Phat, posted 09-13-2018 8:27 AM jaywill has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1348 of 1581 (839645)
09-11-2018 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1347 by jaywill
09-11-2018 7:47 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
jaywill writes:

quote:
I did not watch the silly video and do not watch silly videos.

So you gave a lying impression at first that you saw it.

quote:
There was no lecture, there was only a carny midway snake oil sales pitch

You have now confirmed that YOU "snake oiled" YOUR false impression about yourself and the level of familiarity with the LECTURE.

It would have been easier to just admit up front that you didn't watch it.
It also would have been more to your integrity.

Not much of a surprise.

Padlock your head. I don't care.

Think, if you still are capable of thinking.

There is no need to watch any video that is absurd and dishonest and ignorant simply by existing.

You still just show your dishonesty and ignorance.

As I mentioned before there are mirrors placed on the moon during several different voyages to the moon. They are mirrors for a purpose, one that should be obvious to anyone capable of thinking, specifically they return a known scatter that will be different than the surface of the moon itself.

Sorry but those fools who think we did not go to the moon are simply unworthy of attention or my time.

And once again, it still has absolutely nothing to do with the topic beyond the fact that those who doubt we went to the moon are as disconnected from reality or evidence based decision making as the fools that believe there will be some rapture or that the Bible is not simply the creation of man.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1347 by jaywill, posted 09-11-2018 7:47 PM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1349 by jaywill, posted 09-12-2018 9:21 AM jar has responded
 Message 1351 by Phat, posted 09-12-2018 11:47 AM jar has responded

  
jaywill
Member
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1349 of 1581 (839662)
09-12-2018 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1348 by jar
09-11-2018 8:58 PM


Re: Back to the End Times
I know about the mirrors.
The mirrors are a good argument.

I know about the rocks.
But earth rocks were sent to some dignitaries under the guise of being Moon rocks. The country's scientists checked them OUT. They were SAID to be from the Moon. But they were judged as NOT.

If there were real Moon rocks brought back giving away phony ones doesn't HELP the credibility of those who insist they walked on the moon.

A few other things DON'T HELP.
And an X military person told me that there is a many decades commitment to classified silence about some matters which are considered of a national security issue.

This X military person believes we did go to the moon. But he also believes that when this period of classified secrecy ends more of the true story will be unclassified.

I know about rigolith.
I know about the Chinese moon landings.

I know about explanations of there being no stars in the backround.
I know of many good explanations like the reflecting mirrors.

Sounds in the vacuum of space in one of the Moon Walks made NO SENSE.
The sound of tools landing on surfaces after having been TOSSED ... should not BE. Looks like somebody SLIPPED UP.

That was the SOUND of tools being tossed around.
And the sound COULD NOT come through the air inside the space suits.

There is NO AIR to carry sound waves outside of the space suits.

Sometimes I think reflections of light can be seen on the cables holding up the astronauts.

Sending TV signals from Moon to Earth on as much voltage that they had for transmission has serious questions. That's hundreds of thousands of miles from the Moon to the earth, not fifty or seventy miles. The batteries and transmission equipment was not that powerful some say.

I also know that some have said it would have been impossible in 1969 to pull off the slow motion videos with the available technology of that time.

I don't trust anyone who thinks this is a slam dunk matter either way.

I don't trust that it is an obvious closed case that we passed through the Van Allen Belts without loss of life.

To this day the problem of the intense radiation of the Van Allen Belts is an unsolved problem to NASA.

But you don't listen to those who say NASA seems to stand for Never A Straight Answer.

I also know Neil Armstrong became a reclues and did few interviews.
I also know he said some cryptic things about they were just parrots trained to repeat some things and not fly.
And he spoke of "protective covering of truth".

So we are not being told everything.
At present i think they had a Plan B in case of failure to STAGE a landing.

So I just don't know. I don't trust anyone who is SO SURE that he has no remaining questions.

The truth may be a mixture somewhere in the middle.

As for you not wasting your time talking to me. FINE !!
I don't like conversing with you ANYWAY.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1348 by jar, posted 09-11-2018 8:58 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1350 by Phat, posted 09-12-2018 11:40 AM jaywill has not yet responded
 Message 1355 by jar, posted 09-12-2018 5:17 PM jaywill has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11403
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1350 of 1581 (839663)
09-12-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1349 by jaywill
09-12-2018 9:21 AM


In regards to the moon landing:
jaywill writes:

I don't trust anyone who thinks this is a slam dunk matter either way.

I will consider your argument, based on your willingness to present the case as you understand it. Granted the whole idea seems preposterous to me, laden with conspiracy theorist type stuff. BUT...I also am skeptical of the classified informational behavior of the United States government and see a parallelism with the shady details regarding Roswell, New Mexico, and the whole UFO story. To be honest, I believe that the actual moon landings happened. I also do not believe that there has ever been contact with extraterrestrial beings. But I am skeptical of high level classified information being covered up by the government.

So we are not being told everything.
I don't think we ever are being told everything. 9-11 still brings some questions to my mind, as does the whole Kennedy assassination controversy. Not that they were necessarily faked so much as they were embellished.

But despite my being a believer in an actual living and eternal Jesus Christ, I often am incredulous over the distinct possibility that humanity is and always has been involved in an internal and societal spiritual war of sorts. It is not always clear who the good guys are if, in fact, there can be said to be such a group or even such a country.

jaywill writes:

I don't trust anyone who is SO SURE that he has no remaining questions.

The truth may be a mixture somewhere in the middle.

As believers, can we allow the same criteria regarding the apologetics and the truth behind the Bible? While I most definitely believe that GOD exists, is real and has been subjectively shown to be personal towards me, I won't deny the objective critics who question me on such matters. What about you, jaywill? Where do you stand in regards to facts vs your beliefs?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1349 by jaywill, posted 09-12-2018 9:21 AM jaywill has not yet responded

  
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