Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 82 (8873 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 11-22-2018 5:17 AM
171 online now:
AZPaul3, PaulK, Pressie, Tangle (4 members, 167 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Son of Man
Post Volume:
Total: 842,597 Year: 17,420/29,783 Month: 1,408/1,956 Week: 405/506 Day: 11/97 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
2526272829
30
Author Topic:   Evangelical Switch from Pro-choice to Anti-abortion
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6271
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 436 of 441 (838259)
08-17-2018 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by Faith
08-17-2018 8:50 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
Faith writes:

Hey Tangle, he's equating you with me, shouldn't that set a fire under you to make a huge effort to blast him out of the park?

He's just being childish, I've no need to follow him down.

Hey I understand, dealing with Percy is like trying to nail Jello to the wall (Do you have Jello in the UK?) and all you get for your trouble is accusations upon accusations.

It's certainly a technique but it doesn't bother me, what bothers me is that he's not arguing honestly, he's avoiding answering the questions and being disingenuous. When that point is reached and all that's left is repetition, it's time to pause for a while.

I'll pray for you to get a second wind, herculean level patience and some good pithy rejoinders.

Seems unlikely at the moment, though I'll have another go if I think of anything new to say. Percy will just have to go on counting :-). But If someone can't say that killing a baby just before birth is wrong whilst simultaneously agreeing that the Roe decision to protect the baby from harm is right, then there's nowhere to go.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Faith, posted 08-17-2018 8:50 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 437 by Percy, posted 08-17-2018 10:10 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17892
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 437 of 441 (838261)
08-17-2018 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 436 by Tangle
08-17-2018 9:55 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
Gee, the similarity is uncanny. Glad you two are besties now.

If you're just here to misrepresent then denigrate your fellow debaters maybe it would be best if you did actually finally do what you've been saying you're going to do and withdraw from the discussion. But if you'd like to constructively discuss the topic then I am here.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2018 9:55 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by Faith, posted 08-17-2018 10:39 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30100
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 438 of 441 (838264)
08-17-2018 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 437 by Percy
08-17-2018 10:10 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
If we're in any sense whatever "besties" it can only be because you are the common denominator. Otherwise we disagree on everything else.

Oh except abortion. How refreshing to have such agreement with a nonChristian on this.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by Percy, posted 08-17-2018 10:10 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17892
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 439 of 441 (838317)
08-19-2018 7:11 AM


Side Issue: Is the World Getting Better or Worse
There was some discussion up thread about Stephen Pinker's thesis that the world is on an improving trend of declining violence. Not that this isn't true, but it's an emergent property of increasing wealth. If/when wealth declines so will the trend of declining violence, along with other positive trends, such as declining wars, declining poverty, improving health and longevity, etc.

Ted Talks runs a weekly radio show of interviews and Ted Talk excerpts of people who have given Ted Talks, and this week's included Stephen Pinker talking about his book The Better Angels of Our Nature, the one that Tangle referenced up thread that sparked this side discussion.

Also on the show was Paul Gilding, former Greenpeace director and a Fellow at the University of Cambridge's Institute for Sustainability Leadership. Gilding spoke about his book The Great Disruption: Why the Climate Crisis Will Bring On the End of Shopping and the Birth of a New World. Gilding's thesis is that The Earth is Full (the title of his Ted Talk), and that a number of current trends are running in the wrong direction, climate change being the most significant driver of change, but sustainability of resources, food production and pollution also being important. Gilding is optimistic, believing that civilization will survive, though not without massive catastrophes first.

Some conclude from Pinker's ideas that mankind is getting better, that we are learning. We are not. Evolution doesn't work that fast. We're still the violent, brutish thugs we were 200,000 years ago. Our wealth (i.e., our improving ability to take advantage of natural resources) has enabled us to evolve increasingly enlightened societies that emphasize freedom, happiness and health. But there's only one Earth, and as Earth's human population presses toward and then past 8 billion it will reach its limit of how much humanity it can sustain, particularly as we spectacularly fail to address climate change.

It cannot be predicted whether this will happen as a gradual decline or as a crash. I suspect the former, but punctuated by spectacular disasters of both climate and food. But whatever the pace of this change, it will bring with it increasing violence and decreasing freedom, happiness and health as nation states battle over resources with the nuclear threat ever present. Our primary hope must be that science and technology somehow win the race against climate change, but this possibility is in the hands of politicians who in many western countries, by far the most powerful block of countries in the world, are given power by electorates too dominated by blockheads swayed by the arguments of populists, scare mongers, haters and reality show hosts.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by Faith, posted 08-19-2018 10:09 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 441 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2018 2:31 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30100
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 440 of 441 (838324)
08-19-2018 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 439 by Percy
08-19-2018 7:11 AM


Re: Side Issue: Is the World Getting Better or Worse
Is this perhaps an indirect argument in favor of abortion? If so it's SO indirect I can't be sure. If your aim is to cut population how about putting all your efforts toward contraception rather than killing the unborn?

As for whether the world is getting better or worse biblical Christians see it as morally worsening practically by the minute these days and many of the things you support we see as the moral problems that are the real cause of disasters, the huge numbers of abortions being a major one. Gay marriage is another. These are the causes of God's judgments on this nation and the world, and it is these moral problems, plus many others, and their consequent judgments by God which are the REAL cause of all the physical earthly disasters that are coming. The causes are always spiritual. Emphasizing physical causes is only a distraction.

There is a solution to such things in obedience to God's laws and prayer to Him for guidance and mercy. But since the majority are going in the opposite direction the minority who seek God in these ways, though we have a restraining effect, can't stop the tide that is powered by the immoralities.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Percy, posted 08-19-2018 7:11 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6271
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 441 of 441 (838329)
08-19-2018 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by Percy
08-19-2018 7:11 AM


Re: Side Issue: Is the World Getting Better or Worse
Decent subject for a new thread. Not much to do with this one though.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Percy, posted 08-19-2018 7:11 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
RewPrev1
...
2526272829
30
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018