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Author Topic:   Time to take another look along the Rio Grande
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1 of 19 (837371)
07-31-2018 8:22 AM


The totally asinine idea of a wall along the US Mexican Border is back in the new again so maybe it's time to take another look at just what that will mean.

The following pictures will show just what is involved in fencing the Rio Grande for just a fairly short stretch, an actual distance as the crow flies of about 40 miles.

The pictures follow the river from left to right with sufficient overlap to allow the viewer to see the full extent of what is needed to fence the river.

In the images the US is at the top and Mexico at the bottom.

Remember that this is only about 40 miles of the Texas Mexico border.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 8:36 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2 of 19 (837373)
07-31-2018 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
07-31-2018 8:22 AM


You don't mention any proposals for how to deal with it so just presenting the problem tells us nothing.

And of course the Rio Grande is only part of the whole border, most of which is quite straight. I'd guess the straight parts is where they'd start the wall.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 07-31-2018 8:44 AM Faith has responded
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3 of 19 (837374)
07-31-2018 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Faith
07-31-2018 8:36 AM


Faith writes:

You don't mention any proposals for how to deal with it so just presenting the problem tells us nothing.

It tells us the idea of a wall is simply stupid.

Faith writes:

And of course the Rio Grande is only a very tiny portion of the whole border, most of which is quite straight.

Your ignorance is showing still.

the Texas/Mexico border is actually well over half of the US/Mexico border even as the crow flies and when you look at the wall along the river it is likely 2/3 or more of the total fence required.

The proposal is to change the laws to increase legal immigration to the US.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 4 of 19 (837375)
07-31-2018 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
07-31-2018 8:44 AM


Sorry, yes, what you showed is the tiny portion, not the whole Texas border.

I'm OK with increasing LEGAL immigration. What I was saying was you don't mention what proposals are in place for dealing with the winding river. It may not be what you think.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 5 of 19 (837377)
07-31-2018 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
07-31-2018 8:47 AM


any fence is a stupid idea
Faith writes:

What I was saying was you don't mention what proposals are in place for dealing with the winding river. It may not be what you think.

But we do know what proposals are in place Faith. Surveying has been going on for almost a year now and prototype fence have been made. There are also only a limited number of possiblities, each stupider than the one before.

First we can build a straight line fence and ignore the river, in effect ceding the land south of the fence back to Mexico and taking that land from the current owners.

Second, build the fence right along the river which will more than triple the actual miles of fence needed.

But regardless, we will need to build the access roads to patrol the fence and not a foot of those exist today nor are those costs factored into the current thinking.

In addition, unless we wish to cede all access and use of the river for recreation and fishing there needs to be holes in the fence that will then need the same staffing as border crossings to control who passes through.

Finally, what is needed to get past a 25 foot high fence? A ...


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 07-31-2018 9:23 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 6 of 19 (837379)
07-31-2018 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
07-31-2018 9:20 AM


Re: any fence is a stupid idea
I'll leave all that to the planners,l and pray they do it the very best possible way. Still I would expect them to do the fence along the straight border first.
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 7 of 19 (837383)
07-31-2018 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
07-31-2018 9:23 AM


Re: any fence is a stupid idea
Faith writes:

I'll leave all that to the planners,l and pray they do it the very best possible way. Still I would expect them to do the fence along the straight border first.

But the Planner in Chief is an idiot and the way to get around ANY fence is to just go where the fence ain't. Like the whole East and West coasts, the Mississippi River, every Border Crossing, every boat ramp on the Rio Grande River ... or get a ladder.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


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ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 8 of 19 (837390)
07-31-2018 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
07-31-2018 9:23 AM


Re: any fence is a stupid idea
Faith writes:

I'll leave all that to the planners,l and pray they do it the very best possible way.


The planners will spend an ocean of money thinking about various possibilities and they may or may not come up with the obvious one. The best possible way is to not build a wall at all.

There is no simple solution to the "immigration problem". Only a charlatan would try to sell one and only a fool would buy one.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

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Diomedes
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Posts: 753
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 9 of 19 (837392)
07-31-2018 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
07-31-2018 8:47 AM


I'm OK with increasing LEGAL immigration. What I was saying was you don't mention what proposals are in place for dealing with the winding river.

If one wishes to curb illegal immigration, there are far better options available than trying to build a giant wall. Utilize technology, like motion sensors, thermal cameras, etc. Or hire more border patrol.

But on a functional level, the wall in an of itself is a boondoggle. It will cost a substantial sum of money and will not be very viable in various sections due to issues like topography of the land or the issue with the river being a barrier.

One thing to mention is the narrative often used to describe how illegal immigrants cross the border (i.e. cross illegally on foot or smuggle themselves) is actually erroneous. The vast majority of illegals actually arrive via legitimate means and just don't go back.


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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 10 of 19 (837403)
07-31-2018 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Diomedes
07-31-2018 1:27 PM


steps to help alleviate the illegal alien problem
One problem is that the US does not know who should be in the US as a citizen; there is no list of citizens.

Maybe what is needed would be a RFID chip implanted at birth in every child born in the US and in every current person in the US who is registered to vote as well as every Naturalized US Citizen. A RFID chip could be read remotely just like credit cards and only those who have the chip could buy, sell or vote. Anyone without a RFID chip could then be easily identified when they pass near a scanner in all public places, rounded up and then either sent to the Citizenship school where if they pass the tests to become a citizen get their RFID implant or should hey fail get deported.

That certainly should appeal to the vast American Base since it serves multiple purposes; identifies who should be here and hurries along the END TIMES party.

Edited by jar, : On+e


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 11 of 19 (837410)
07-31-2018 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Diomedes
07-31-2018 1:27 PM


Perhaps you should offer yourself as a consultant to the wall planners. It would probably pay well.
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 12 of 19 (837417)
07-31-2018 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Diomedes
07-31-2018 1:27 PM


Diomedes writes:

But on a functional level, the wall in an of itself is a boondoggle. It will cost a substantial sum of money and will not be very viable in various sections due to issues like topography of the land or the issue with the river being a barrier.

If an attempt is made to actually build the stupid wall it may become the most effective foreign aid program in decades. The skilled Mexican workforce can come over every day to construct the wall and we can pay them with US Tax money that they can take back and spend in Mexico. In addition there is far more industrial capacity and infrastructure in the Maquiladoras than on this side of the border and so it just makes sense to hire the Maquiladoras companies already in the area to build the wall components and just bring them across to assemble on this side. By law the Maquiladoras import and export materials and products duty and tariff free.

Not only will Mexico not pay for the wall, it's likely we will pay Mexico to manufacture and build the wall. At the current estimate from the Department of Homeland Security of $21,600,000 to build a 1000 mile fence excluding land and infrastructure costs I'm quite sure Mexico would then welcome the project. The Rio Grande river section would be slightly over 1200 miles long from the Gulf of Mexico to just above El Paso/Juárez.

One minor other issue is that the Rio Grande does change it's course with cut offs and new islands being created and under the current treaty those changes simply get transferred to which ever country they fall under at the time. If north of the main channel they are US, south of the main channel they are Mexico.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 11579
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 13 of 19 (837421)
08-01-2018 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
07-31-2018 5:05 PM


Re: steps to help alleviate the illegal alien problem
You of course are being facetious! The Base would never approve of such a chip...based on their interpretation of the Book of Revelation...rightly or wrongly.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 14 of 19 (837422)
08-01-2018 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
08-01-2018 9:15 AM


Re: steps to help alleviate the illegal alien problem
Yet yesterday Trump called for positive voter ID.

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 753
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 15 of 19 (837423)
08-01-2018 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
07-31-2018 5:05 PM


Re: steps to help alleviate the illegal alien problem
One problem is that the US does not know who should be in the US as a citizen; there is no list of citizens.
Maybe what is needed would be a RFID chip implanted at birth in every child born in the US and in every current person in the US who is registered to vote as well as every Naturalized US Citizen. A RFID chip could be read remotely just like credit cards and only those who have the chip could buy, sell or vote. Anyone without a RFID chip could then be easily identified when they pass near a scanner in all public places, rounded up and then either sent to the Citizenship school where if they pass the tests to become a citizen get their RFID implant or should hey fail get deported.

That certainly should appeal to the vast American Base since it serves multiple purposes; identifies who should be here and hurries along the END TIMES party.

Problem is, once the RFID chip is hacked by the Russians, we may all be doing Putin's bidding. Or maybe that is the end game.

Kidding aside, one thing I have always considered when it comes to illegal immigration is focusing on the root cause. These people are often leaving areas that are in dire straits or very violent. A simple solution I always considered from my perspective that will help ameliorate part of the problem is end the idiotic drug war.

A big issue as it pertains to illegal immigration from countries like Mexico, Columbia, Bolivia and so forth is the fact that they are controlled by various drug cartels. And the government is corrupt and usually in the pocket of the Pablo Escobar types.

The drug war, especially in the USA, is helping to prop up these dictators and criminals. If we decriminalized drugs, it would reduce the power hold many of these people have in their countries. That was a lesson we learned with prohibition. Outlawing alcohol fueled the criminal element and gave rise to people like Al Capone. Once it ended, the crime rate dropped dramatically.


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