Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 73 (8864 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 09-23-2018 7:20 AM
269 online now:
Faith, jaywill, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK, Percy (Admin) (5 members, 264 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: rldawnca
Post Volume:
Total: 838,793 Year: 13,616/29,783 Month: 1,062/1,576 Week: 3/271 Day: 3/39 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
89
10
1112
...
20NextFF
Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 136 of 296 (839593)
09-10-2018 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Tangle
09-10-2018 5:46 PM


At a minimum those who would be raptured would be born again. I don't think many Catholics claim that, and since their doctrine anathematizes the Protestant understanding of salvation, Faith alone in Christ alone, I don't think many of them stand much of a chance. Nevertheless there have to be Catholics for whom Jesus is all, and that may be enough to save them. But yes, sadly, there are not likely to be many Catholics raptured. Martin Luther condemned the papacy as the greatest murderer of Christians because they keep the true way of salvation from them.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2018 5:46 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17657
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 137 of 296 (839596)
09-10-2018 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
09-10-2018 5:37 PM


Faith writes:

So there are quite a few Christians in Asia.

Christians represent about 6% of the Asian population, but more than half are some branch of Catholicism, and how many of the remainder do you think are evangelicals according to your standards?

So I repeat, "Little relief from their overpopulation problem."

If there really were any such thing as the Rapture it would be based upon the type of person you were on Earth, not on what you believed.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 5:37 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 7:53 PM Percy has responded
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 7:59 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 138 of 296 (839597)
09-10-2018 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Percy
09-10-2018 7:22 PM


It would be based on salvation by faith in Christ.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Percy, posted 09-10-2018 7:22 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Percy, posted 09-10-2018 8:54 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 139 of 296 (839598)
09-10-2018 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Percy
09-10-2018 7:22 PM


So to you I wouldn't qualify because what, I've called you all idiots at times?

Salvation is forgiveness of sins by the blood of Christ, that's how a person is saved, by His grace alone and nothing we could possibly do to merit it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Percy, posted 09-10-2018 7:22 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17657
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 140 of 296 (839601)
09-10-2018 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
09-10-2018 7:53 PM


Faith writes:

Percy writes:

If there really were any such thing as the Rapture it would be based upon the type of person you were on Earth, not on what you believed.

It would be based on salvation by faith in Christ.

Perhaps I should have said that if there really were a God of the Bible and if there really were such a thing as the Rapture, then who ascends to heaven would depend upon the type of person they were on Earth, not on what they believed.

So to you I wouldn't qualify because what, I've called you all idiots at times?

I didn't express an opinion, but since you raised the topic, ask yourself what are the qualities of a good person, and then ask yourself how well you've displayed those qualities, not here particularly, but throughout your life. Decide for yourself whether you deserve rapture. Not that it matters. As I understand it, you don't get a say.

Salvation is forgiveness of sins by the blood of Christ, that's how a person is saved, by His grace alone and nothing we could possibly do to merit it.

Goodness is what should be rewarded, not believing the "right" things.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 7:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 9:00 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 141 of 296 (839602)
09-10-2018 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Percy
09-10-2018 8:54 PM


Goodness is what should be rewarded, not believing the "right" things.

Nobody has any goodness except God Himself...

Mark 10:18 writes:

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

...that's why we need to be saved. When we are saved HIS goodness/righteousness is imputed to us, otherwise we couldn't be saved. We are clothed in His righteousness, and after we are saved we do try to obey Him, as I have done since I became a believer. None of us ever does it perfectly and I am sure I do it less well than a lot of others, but that's why I am grateful that my own efforts don't save me, HE saves me, and when I see my sins I confess them and repent of them and He forgives me over and over and over.

ABE: In short, we ARE saved for our goodness, but it is the goodness that comes from Him in which He has clothed us when we put our trust in Him.

I do suspect, however, that your idea of goodness is not God's idea of goodness.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Percy, posted 09-10-2018 8:54 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Percy, posted 09-11-2018 10:35 AM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6091
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 142 of 296 (839606)
09-11-2018 3:04 AM


So, as predicted you're still here, totaly unraptured. Just like everyone else. Also a predicted, being proven wrong has made no diference at all to what you believe.

Can you at least begin to understand what was happening to you when you were seeing all those signs of the upcoming rapture? You were looking for them in every little thing and of course found them in many little things. That's confirmation bias and motivated thinking at work. A perfect example of it. You became a living experiment.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 6:15 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 143 of 296 (839607)
09-11-2018 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Tangle
09-11-2018 3:04 AM


Yes, well I said I might be wrong.

As for the portents,I still see them as portents of its being close though I've given up on the Rosh Hashanah timing. I really don't think such a collection of impressions could just be the result of my looking for them. Some of them are awfully precise. Do you think you could come up with such a collection on a theme of your choice? How common are escape or evacuation themes found? See how many you can find just going about your daily life. How about end times allusions in general?

And I got a couple more portents this morning already. From the radio. The first thing on the Bible reading program was Deuteronomy 32 from the point where Moses' song starts describing the punishments that will follow the disobedience of God's people, and it sounds a lot like the Day of the LORD or Great Tribulation: I will bring disasters upon you etc.

Deuteronomy 32:21-23 writes:

They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them....

The following program was a sermon from Luke 17:20 which is parallel to Matthew 24 where Jesus teaches about His Second Coming. How often do you suppose that theme comes up in a normal series of preaching through a book of the Bible? Why did it just happen to come up this morning? I listen sporadically at best to preaching programs unless there's a subject that particularly interests me.

The emphasis in both these cases was on the tribulation to be suffered by the unbelievers. Which reminds me that although it's very disappointing to me that the Rapture hasn't occurred, for unbelievers it is a reprieve from the judgment that is to follow when it does happen. It's an opportunity to repent and be saved. I know that isn't going to happen with you unfortunately but that is really how it should be thought of. If the Rapture occurs it's a great blessing for me, but not for those left behind.

As for the portents, I'll just keep them in mind and note others as they occur and figure it's still coming soon though when is going to be the big surprise scripture says it will be.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Tangle, posted 09-11-2018 3:04 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Tangle, posted 09-11-2018 6:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6091
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 144 of 296 (839608)
09-11-2018 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Faith
09-11-2018 6:15 AM


Faith writes:

Yes, well I said I might be wrong.

Oh sure. Then you said 'but' and went on for pages about why you're expecting to be raptured this month. And then specifically the 10th and found loads of reasons for it. Just like you do with most of your beliefs. The difference being that you could be proven wrong in ways you can't fool yourself about on this one.

As for the portents,I still see them as portents of its being close

Of course you do, I said that you would. It's all part of the syndrome.

though I've given up on the Rosh Hashanah timing.

Rather, it gave up on you. You had no choice but to 'give up on it', it didn't happen.

I really don't think such a collection of impressions could just be the result of my looking for them.

No shit! However, that's what proveably happened.

Some of them are awfully precise.

In prophesies, precision is the enemy, they can be shown to be wrong very easily, that's why prophesies are rarely precise, but when they are they're wrong. Just like yours and Christ's.

Do you think you could come up with such a collection on a theme of your choice? How common are escape or evacuation themes found? See how many you can find just going about your daily life. How about end times allusions in general?

I'd be quite bad at it because to see these things you have to be susceptable to that kind of weird, magical thinking. I'm not infected by that kind of mind virus. But you just gave us a perfect demonstration of it. You turn mundane or fully explicable events into magical portents. Though why a god would feel he had to work in that dumb way is questionable too.

Having said that it would be such an easy thing to demonstrate that I'm sure it's been properly researched many times. If I get a chance I'll look it up.

And I got a couple more portents this morning already. From the radio. The first thing on the Bible reading program was Deuteronomy 32....

Yeh, what a surprise, you got portents listening to a radio channel broadcasting the Old Testament. Of course you bloody did!!! It would be impossible for you not to.

As for the portents, I'll just keep them in mind and note others as they occur and figure it's still coming soon though when is going to be the big surprise scripture says it will be.

It will not be coming soon or ever. That's my prophesy. It was also my prophesy that you being shown to be abjectly wrong would change nothing for you. And obviously it hasn't.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 6:15 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17657
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 145 of 296 (839612)
09-11-2018 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Faith
09-10-2018 9:00 PM


Faith writes:

Goodness is what should be rewarded, not believing the "right" things.

Nobody has any goodness except God Himself...

Mark 10:18 writes:

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

And yet Jesus is God, eternal and already in existence before he was born. God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, so of course Jesus as part of this Trinity is good, so this passage from Mark is plainly in error.

...that's why we need to be saved.

It is good people who should be saved, not people who have adopted certain "correct" beliefs.

I do suspect, however, that your idea of goodness is not God's idea of goodness.

I know what goodness is here on Earth where it counts, and goodness is not believing the "right" things.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 9:00 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 1:15 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 146 of 296 (839618)
09-11-2018 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Percy
09-11-2018 10:35 AM


This idea that it is "good people" who should be saved is the NONChristian idea that the whole world has that Christ came to CORRECT. There ARE no "good people." That is point number one. Nobody can live up to God's standards. And the idea that we can be saved by being good is what is called "works-righteousness," which is specifically condemned in the New Testament. This is what Martin Luther and the other Reformers rediscovered after it had been buried in the superstitions of the Roman Church for centuries. God saves us, and He saves sinners. Jesus said He came not to save the righteous but sinners. Repentant sinners of course, sinners who own their sin and repent of it.

It's unfortunately very common for people to say when asked if they expect to go to heaven that they think they are good people so they do expect to go to heaven, but this is exactly wrong. "For you have been saved by grace, not works, lest any man should boast."

But you have a false parody of being saved by faith anyway. Faith is not just empty belief, it is being changed, born again, to follow Christ.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Percy, posted 09-11-2018 10:35 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2018 1:23 PM Faith has responded
 Message 159 by Percy, posted 09-11-2018 2:49 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14346
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


(2)
Message 147 of 296 (839619)
09-11-2018 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Faith
09-11-2018 1:15 PM


Good can be a relative term and since Faith should lead to works I think it is clear that genuine Christians should be better than average. As you say:

quote:

Faith is not just empty belief, it is being changed, born again, to follow Christ.

But all we see in you is the epitome of empty belief - so long as we are talking about Christian belief.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 1:15 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 1:29 PM PaulK has responded
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 09-11-2018 2:12 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 148 of 296 (839621)
09-11-2018 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by PaulK
09-11-2018 1:23 PM


I can only leave it to God to judge that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2018 1:23 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2018 1:45 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14346
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 149 of 296 (839622)
09-11-2018 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
09-11-2018 1:29 PM


I would assume that if God exists he is quite capable of seeing the obvious. And you have made it so very obvious.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 1:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 1:48 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29552
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 150 of 296 (839623)
09-11-2018 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by PaulK
09-11-2018 1:45 PM


I find your extreme hatred of me incomprehensible but again I can only leave it to God.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2018 1:45 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2018 1:53 PM Faith has responded

    
Prev1
...
89
10
1112
...
20NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018