|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
GDR writes: AZPaul3 writes: You think your god has miracles? Amazing what chemistry can do on its own in 4 billion years. ...and just why does that chemistry exist? Why do all these natural processes exist? Is it all blind chance or is there an intelligent root cause? Well, come on then, follow up on what you believe. Go find the objective evidence of this intelligent root cause. Stop asking meaningless rhetorical questions like, "How else could all of creation have come about without an intelligent root cause?" --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminPhat Inactive Member |
I think it would be a good time to close this thread, as it has veered far away from anything to do with Faiths Rapture or the absence thereof.
May I suggest that GDR start a new thread explaining why he believes that blind chance makes far less sense than belief. It seems to be our focus in these debates. What do you think, Percy? Any ideas on what you would like to see as you and GDR move forward in your ever expanding and detailed discussion?
Percy,to GDR writes: Which direction shall it go? Evidence-based or belief alone? Well, come on then, follow up on what you believe. Go find the objective evidence of this intelligent root cause. Stop asking meaningless rhetorical questions like, "How else could all of creation have come about without an intelligent root cause?" Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPhat, : added thought
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
While Faith's rapture now receives only occasional mention (given her current non-participation I guess one could say she was raptured from this thread), it is on my mind in every post, for it is the poster child for how made up ideas, those without real world evidence, fail to make accurate predictions about the real world. Failed predictions help us judge which ideas to discard.
In my mind this thread has always been about evidence, and since I'm still discussing what constitutes evidence with GDR it still feels like the same thread to me. But I can understand that those focused more specifically on Faith's predicted rapture might see the current discussion as having left the topic, in which case I have no problem with closing the thread. If GDR would like to continue the discussion he could proposed a new thread over at Proposed New Topics. He could include responses to the latest replies to him in the thread proposal. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
|
I think this thread should remain open until Faith's rapture is evident. I'm betting it's not now going to be 2018.
But maybe 2019? Nah.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I just had a good idea for one. Let me propose one. Everyone see if you like it.
I shall call it Evidence For Belief. Now let me go compile it. I'll wait a few days before deciding to close this one or not. The arguments here are very well done...Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Emergent properties. ...and just why does that chemistry exist? Why do all these natural processes exist? The periodic table represents every possible arrangement of protons, neutrons and electrons. Each combination has emergent properties. On the other hand, why does God exist?And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Is it all blind chance or is there an intelligent root cause? No evidence of any kind of intelligent agency at work but plenty of evidence for natural process so I think the answer is obvious.
and just why does that chemistry exist? Because the materials, forces and processes exist.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
To count how much spare change you hand out.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That doesn't explain why He existed in the first place. To count how much spare change you hand outAnd our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Humans are hardwired to ask why.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That still doesn't explain why God existed. Humans are hardwired to ask why. GDR asked why chemicals exist. Presumably, his answer is because God created them. So, the next obvious question is: Who created God? If you can just stop asking at God as "the first uncaused thing", then why not start at chemicals as the first uncaused thing?And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You could i suppose. You can make up any first uncaused cause that you like. Humans have a strange imagination though. I think its true....ye shall be as gods.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But chemicals are not made up. They exist objectively. You can make up any first uncaused cause that you like.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The idea that creation creates itself is like the idea that ye shall be as gods. While it is true that we have an imagination and are creative, we are only really recreating what was created in the first place. there is no such thing as an original thought. You will then argue that the same applies to God. And you may also argue that there *could* be an original set of uncaused first chemicals.
Im learning to anticipate your answers before you make them. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Remember that God confirmed what the snake said: Adam and Eve DID become like gods. The idea that creation creates itself is like the idea that ye shall be as gods. But that isn' t what we're talking about here. We're talking about whether an uncaused cause that actually exists makes more sense than a made-up uncaused cause.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024