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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1411 of 1677 (847118)
01-18-2019 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1408 by Faith
01-18-2019 11:29 AM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Phat said he and his friends heard many voices coming out of this one friend. Ever heard that? How do you explain that away?
Yes, and that is what keeps alive my belief that I experienced something paranormal. There were no hidden microphones or tape recorders. My friends were not on drugs nor was I. They did not trick me...I can read a person whom I know and determine that. So like Faith says, where did the otherworldly sound of a chorus of voices...clearly heard by me...come from?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1408 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 11:29 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1412 of 1677 (847119)
01-18-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1409 by Phat
01-18-2019 11:40 AM


Re: Suffering with a loving God
Phat writes:
I maintain that there is a certain protocol...
But your thinking is backwards. You're making up a God to fit the dogma.
Phat writes:
For the purpose of my question, what are the acceptable forms of behavior in Heaven? Can we do our own thing (freewill in heaven?) or...more likely...do we play by club rules...willingly?
When you're a member of a club, you're subject to club rules when you're at the club. The club doesn't necessarily dictate what you can do in your own back yard. If you must have a heaven, why can't it be your own back yard instead of a clubhouse?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1409 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 11:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1414 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 11:51 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1413 of 1677 (847120)
01-18-2019 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1410 by Faith
01-18-2019 11:41 AM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about
Wiki calls it Glossolalia. I had it once--its a random pattern of jibberish that becomes known by the user and repeated in response to what is taught in the religion. Supposedly only angels know it. I'm sure there is a biological linguistic explanation---I wouldn't worry about it too much. The demons, on the other hand...I wouldn't fear them if one is a believer, but realize that...like a common cold...they can make you uncomfortable...especially if the sin they feed is one you like.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1410 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 11:41 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1414 of 1677 (847121)
01-18-2019 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1412 by ringo
01-18-2019 11:46 AM


Re: Suffering with a loving God
If you must have heaven, why can't it be your own back yard instead of a clubhouse?
Because you assume that God need not be in charge. The whole point of the club is to surrender to Him...
Or are you arguing for eternal free will without the builder's interference?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1412 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1416 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 11:53 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1415 of 1677 (847122)
01-18-2019 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1410 by Faith
01-18-2019 11:41 AM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
They had a definite pattern that would repeat itself over and over.
That corresponds to the "tongues" that I have heard. It's one of the things that leads me to conclude that it is not a real communication.
Faith writes:
Since I was not doing it, was not controlling it, I have to call it "supernatural."
I have muscle tics that I don't call supernatural. I think mental tics are even more common.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1410 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 11:41 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1417 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 12:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1416 of 1677 (847123)
01-18-2019 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1414 by Phat
01-18-2019 11:51 AM


Re: Suffering with a loving God
Phat writes:
Because you assume that God need not be in charge. The whole point of the club is to surrender to Him...
Again, you're making up the God to fit the dogma.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1414 by Phat, posted 01-18-2019 11:51 AM Phat has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1417 of 1677 (847124)
01-18-2019 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1415 by ringo
01-18-2019 11:52 AM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
It may not be an actual communication, I don't really know for sure what it is, but it is definitely a pattern of sounds that people "speak" though they aren't controlling them except to start and stop them. In a charismatic church once, my pastor suggested that everyone face east and speak in their "tongue" and the whole room was full of these odd sounds because so many had that "gift" which isn't a gift but who knows what it is.
"Tic" indeed. You guys will go to any bizarre lengths to try to explain these things away.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1415 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 11:52 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1418 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 12:07 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1418 of 1677 (847125)
01-18-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1417 by Faith
01-18-2019 12:03 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
"Tic" indeed. You guys will go to any bizarre lengths to try to explain these things away.
It's the principle of, "If you hear hoof-beats, think horses, not zebras." Simple explanations before exotic ones. The bizarre lengths here are the "supernatural" ones.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1417 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 12:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1419 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 12:09 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1419 of 1677 (847126)
01-18-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1418 by ringo
01-18-2019 12:07 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
This isn't something recognizable like "hoof beats" ringo, it's utterly inexplicable on any normal analogy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1418 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 12:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1420 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 12:13 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1420 of 1677 (847127)
01-18-2019 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1419 by Faith
01-18-2019 12:09 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
This isn't something recognizable like "hoof beats" ringo...
Sure it is. It's human voices.
Faith writes:
... it's utterly inexplicable on any normal analogy.
On the contrary, there are plausible psychological and physiological explanations.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1419 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 12:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1427 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 1:06 PM ringo has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9510
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1421 of 1677 (847128)
01-18-2019 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1408 by Faith
01-18-2019 11:29 AM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
I've thought for years that many cases of mental illness are probably the result of demon possession.
I'm sure you have, you believe all sorts of rubbish.
Doctors disagree with you.
Phat said he and his friends heard many voices coming out of this one friend. Ever heard that? How do you explain that away?
You think people can't make different voices?
And you think a demon would? Why?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1408 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 11:29 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1424 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 12:59 PM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1422 of 1677 (847129)
01-18-2019 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1408 by Faith
01-18-2019 11:29 AM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
I've thought for years that many cases of mental illness are probably the result of demon possession.
Another case of thinking backwards: Rain is caused by puddles.
More likely, cases of "demon possession" are caused by mental illness.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1408 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 11:29 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1423 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 12:55 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1423 of 1677 (847130)
01-18-2019 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1422 by ringo
01-18-2019 12:16 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
More likely, cases of "demon possession" are caused by mental illness
That could also be true of course, but the extreme phenomena some have described here is beyond mental illness into something demonic. The first cause of demon possession is sin, that's what gives them "permission" to enter a person. There are demons of particular sins so they can keep driving a person more and more into those same sins and more extreme versions of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1422 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 12:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1425 by ringo, posted 01-18-2019 1:00 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1424 of 1677 (847131)
01-18-2019 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1421 by Tangle
01-18-2019 12:13 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Doctors will only explain things as far as their theories go, and if they reject the idea of demons that isn't going to be a possibility in their minds.
You think people can't make different voices?
And you think a demon would? Why?
The voices being talked about here are not coming from the person's mouth but their body and there are lots of them, indicating the presence of more than one demon.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1421 by Tangle, posted 01-18-2019 12:13 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1435 by Tangle, posted 01-18-2019 1:55 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1425 of 1677 (847133)
01-18-2019 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1423 by Faith
01-18-2019 12:55 PM


Re: experience with demon-possessed man
Faith writes:
... the extreme phenomena some have described here is beyond mental illness....
Oh come on. Nothing that has been described here is even close to what mental illness can do.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1423 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 12:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1426 by Faith, posted 01-18-2019 1:04 PM ringo has replied

  
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