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Author Topic:   The Atheist Experience
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2 of 283 (839215)
09-05-2018 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
09-05-2018 11:46 AM


Phat writes:
Has anyone watched this show?
I suspect that most atheists are not as interested in atheism as you are.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 09-05-2018 11:46 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 1:05 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 6 of 283 (839556)
09-10-2018 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
09-10-2018 12:58 PM


Re: The Discussion is not as simple as Tangle concludes
Phat writes:
Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity?
Is a hammer superior to an apple? Are they interchangeable?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 12:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 1:07 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 10 of 283 (839561)
09-10-2018 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
09-10-2018 1:07 PM


Re: The Discussion is not as simple as Tangle concludes
Phat writes:
Watch a video once in a while....
I'm at the Public Library.
Phat writes:
One eats an apple or bakes a pie with it or splits it with an arrow. maybe they should have thrown it at the snake to shoo that critter away!
Hammers are good for hard objects. Maybe Occam should have used a hammer rather than a razor.
So you missed the point completely.
Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? How can you even compare them?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 1:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 1:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 12 of 283 (839565)
09-10-2018 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
09-10-2018 1:26 PM


Re: The Discussion is not as simple as Tangle concludes
Phat writes:
Tentatively I think that Christianity is superior in that we gain a relationship.
I'm not asking which is superior. I'm asking how you can even make a comparison. Like an apple and a hammer, are they used for the same purpose? If you don't have one, can you substitute the other?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 09-10-2018 1:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by caffeine, posted 09-10-2018 2:39 PM ringo has replied
 Message 14 by Diomedes, posted 09-10-2018 2:53 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 283 (839738)
09-14-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by caffeine
09-10-2018 2:39 PM


Re: The Discussion is not as simple as Tangle concludes
caffeine writes:
Yes, isn't that exactly Secular Humanism is? It's a Christianity substitute for ex-Christians who miss Christianity.
I suppose you could think of it as conscience without the supernatural mumbo-jumbo added. Unfortunately, religion also subtracts some of the conscience.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by caffeine, posted 09-10-2018 2:39 PM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 09-14-2018 8:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 52 of 283 (839772)
09-15-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
09-14-2018 8:26 PM


Re: The Discussion is not as simple as Tangle concludes
Phat writes:
one could argue, however, that your sense of duty towards conscience is itself a belief
Conscience is a characteristic that evolved because it was beneficial. I don't need to "believe" in it for it to be a good thing. I can see the results.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 09-14-2018 8:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 53 of 283 (839773)
09-15-2018 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Tangle
09-15-2018 2:53 AM


Re: What differences between Christianity and Atheism
Tangle writes:
Belief is positive - like pregnancy - you've either got it or you ain't.
I don't know about that....

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Tangle, posted 09-15-2018 2:53 AM Tangle has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 09-15-2018 12:29 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 55 of 283 (839775)
09-15-2018 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
09-15-2018 12:29 PM


Re: What differences between Christianity and Atheism
Phat writes:
For me, mindfulness, personal growth, and increased patience and wisdom are all the "evidence" I need....
Without concrete evidence, how do you know you're being "mindful"?
Without concrete evidence, how do you know you're growing personally?
Without concrete evidence, how do you know your patience and wisdom are increasing?
Without concrete evidence, how do you know it isn't all self-delusion and wishful thinking?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 09-15-2018 12:29 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 09-15-2018 1:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 57 of 283 (839777)
09-15-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
09-15-2018 1:00 PM


Re: What differences between Christianity and Atheism
Phat writes:
what would you say *is* concrete evidence for those perceptions?
The question is how do YOU know?
Phat writes:
I trust what I have learned as well as verify it through my own experience.
What does that mean? How do you distinguish "your own experience" from wishful thinking?
Phat writes:
I dont need a scientific paper to verify that I'm being mindful.
What if there was a scientific paper that showed you were not being mindful? Would you accept it?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 09-15-2018 1:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 09-15-2018 5:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 71 of 283 (839801)
09-16-2018 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
09-15-2018 5:03 PM


Re: What differences between Christianity and Atheism
Phat writes:
I trust my intuition.
You shouldn't.
Phat writes:
You don't trust yours and need science to give you a reason to move forward.
Nobody should trust their own intuition. We ALL need confirmation. We often see things and hear things and intuit things that are not real. That's why one of the most common phrases is, "Did you see that?"
I asked you five questions and you answered one. Where does your intuition stand on the other four?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 09-15-2018 5:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-16-2018 4:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 73 of 283 (839815)
09-16-2018 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
09-16-2018 4:00 PM


Re: What differences between Christianity and Atheism
Phat writes:
It means I trust what is comfortable. I trust what feels right. I don't like cognitive dissonance.
Comfort is not a cure for cognitive dissonance.
Phat writes:
it seems rational to believe in a friendly ghost rather than a hostile one.
Again, that seems more like a comfortable idea than a rational one.
Phat writes:
You would take it a step further and simply believe in verifiable reality rather than take the risk that any and all ghosts were illusions.
How is that a risk?
Phat writes:
And again, how can I always trust reality?
How can you trust anything BUT reality?
Phat writes:
Part of me holds out for mystery and surprise.
You can have all the mystery and surprise you want as long as it doesn't interfere with reality.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-16-2018 4:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 09-16-2018 4:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 79 of 283 (839862)
09-17-2018 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Phat
09-16-2018 4:40 PM


Re: What differences between Christianity and Atheism
Phat writes:
Do you think that belief in God interferes with reality?
Must it or merely can it?
It certainly can. For many people it seems like an escape from reality. Look at the little old lady who believed that God would save her from the flood - so fervently that she ignored the reality of the salvation that was available. For others, there seems to be a downright avoidance of reality. Look at Faith, who viciously denies reality in favour of her spoon-fed interpretation of the Bible.
Phat writes:
I think that for me, when I embraced belief it became subjectively real.
There's no such thing as subjectively real.
Phat writes:
Does unevidenced belief equate to wishful thinking?
1. All belief is unevidenced. If there was evidence, it wouldn't be belief.
2. Belief can be based on wishful thinking, or on ignorance of the evidence that does exist, or it can just be a temporary filler for areas where there isn't enough evidence.
Phat writes:
Is subjective evidence allowable as evidence in the court of public opinion?
1. There's no such thing as subjective evidence.
2. Evidence has nothing to do with the court of public opinion.
Evidence, by definition, must be evident. A bullet hole in a body is evident to everybody. The interpretation of the evidence may be subject to some differences of opinion.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 09-16-2018 4:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-17-2018 2:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 88 of 283 (839907)
09-18-2018 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
09-17-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Phat writes:
Which explains why you never became born again...
Stop it. I was as "born again" as you ever were.
Phat writes:
...your insistence on objective evidence blinded you to allowing change.
What? It's objective evidence that motivates change. If all we had to do was appease the gods, we'd still be sitting in caves eating raw mammoth. We used objective evidence, not faith, to make life better.
Phat writes:
Perhaps you never wanted to let go of your control...
On the contrary, I'm willing to take control - and responsibility - instead of relying on an alien overlord.
Phat writes:
...but understand that when I did let go of my rational mind, I gained inner peace.
So how come the "inner peace" isn't reflected in outer peace?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-17-2018 2:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 98 of 283 (839944)
09-19-2018 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Faith
09-19-2018 1:09 PM


Re: Holding On To Rationality At All Costs
Faith writes:
If you believe the Bible is God's inspired word to us, you don't treat it as man-made by subjecting it to the kind of thinking you'd subject any man-made doctrine to.
Why would you believe that?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 09-19-2018 1:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 121 of 283 (864787)
10-16-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Faith
10-16-2019 4:10 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Faith writes:
The less "fleshly" activity the better, that's all, including digestion. But you can fast from all kinds of things and get some of the same benefits, from sleep, from spending money.
Cults use deprivation like that - to muddle the thought processes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 4:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 4:17 PM ringo has replied

  
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