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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News)
PaulK
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Posts: 14545
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 256 of 268 (843642)
11-19-2018 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by JonF
11-19-2018 5:23 PM


Re: Avenatti said "She hit me first."
The Daily Mail is hardly a great source. But given the way Wohl messed up the smear campaign against Mueller I doubt he has the competence to pull this off.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by JonF, posted 11-19-2018 5:23 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
caffeine
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Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 257 of 268 (843740)
11-20-2018 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Faith
11-19-2018 4:02 PM


Re: Acosta’s credentials to be restored - for now
ABE: CAFFEINE: You mention a post of Percy's that refers to a prececent but I can't find it in the voluminous stuff he's written. Please post the exact reference. Thanks.

Percy's original post
The Atlantic article he referenced.
Some detail on the original ruling from a website about US case law


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Percy
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Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 258 of 268 (843833)
11-21-2018 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Faith
11-19-2018 3:52 PM


Re: Avenatti said "She hit me first."
See Message 2624 of the The Trump Presidency thread.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Faith, posted 11-19-2018 3:52 PM Faith has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
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Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 259 of 268 (843848)
11-21-2018 10:33 PM


It Ain't Turkey Day
Abraham Lincoln's Thanksgiving Day Proclamation

Editor's Note: This 1863 proclamation by President Abraham Lincoln set aside the last Thursday in November as the date for giving thanks. We republish it in its entirety.

The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God.

In the midst of a civil war of unequalled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union.

Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle, or the ship; the axe had enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years, with large increase of freedom.

No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy.

It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and voice by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility and Union.

In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the city of Washington, this third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the independence of the United States the eighty-eighth.

On this day we thank God for our many blessings to this nation, and to ourselves and families, the God who has revealed Himself in the Bible, the God who was recognized in America and the west generally until quite recently. He is God and there is no other.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-23-2018 10:28 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 1:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16065
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 260 of 268 (843945)
11-23-2018 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Faith
11-21-2018 10:33 PM


Re: It Ain't Turkey Day
"We"?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 10:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 261 of 268 (844186)
11-26-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Faith
11-21-2018 10:33 PM


Re: It Ain't Turkey Day
Faith writes:

I'm very very grateful for this country I live in, and for this current administration which, whatever its faults, saved us from something so much worse I am tearfully grateful that God is having mercy on us even in the midst of judging us for our sins.

Out of curiosity, what would the worse result have been?

To its credit, the Right has "saved" us from as rapid of a merge into "globalization" treaties and agreements. Trump claims that the deals were all lopsided and bad for America. To his credit, the one good thing I have seen him do (which some say is not even fully his credit) is rev the economy up again...but economic booms and busts occur cyclically no matter which party is in power...and the facts show that recessions are getting longer and deeper before recovery.

This article was interesting...I may have initially seen it here or elsewhere...but it summed up the situation the way I also see it..without being fake or misleading.

quote:
When left populists rail against elites they are generally referring to economic and political power. Their target is the richest 1% that owns half the world’s wealth: the newspaper moguls, bankers, political donors and corporate lobbyists; Tony Blair, the Clintons, the Bushes, Old Etonians, Old Harrovians, Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, Harvard, Bullingdon. Those people who run things unchecked from a position of absolute and relative privilege that is often inherited. The left believes that the prospects for democracy weaken as inequalities grow and oligarchies emerge which govern in their own interests. Society then operates according to the golden rule – those who have the gold make the rules.

But when rightwing populists focus on elites they are mostly referring to culture. Their targets are filmmakers, actors, lecturers, journalists, “globalists”, spiritualists, scientists and vegans; the Clintons, Hollywood, Londoners, New Yorkers, Silicon Valley, Sussex and Berkeley. These are the people the right claim are responsible for shaping what people can see or hear, and limiting what they can say. They pillory opinion-formers for looking down on “ordinary people” as being ignorant, bigoted and uncouth. And they are always careful to invent “ordinary people” in their own image.


This seems to sum up what I see happening in the many conversations that I have with friends and coworkers of varied political leanings. My Christian friends are diverse to a degree, but most of the ones such as you who are Biblical Innerrenntists, support Mr.Trump. They feel that his disdain for political correctness and his rude charm represent honesty to them. They feel that God foreknew that Trump would be our leader. I disagree with them, but this article clarified why many felt and feel the way that they do.

If we are in the "last days" and the world is destined to go through a time of upheaval and change like no other before, I suppose that by building up our military again, Trump was doing his prophetic thing, but I fear that the rest of the world will end up hating us enough that they all may turn against us. Granted my beliefs are mirroring yours in this thread...except that I am a moderate and not as right wing as you are. Jesus said that the world will hate us because of Him...and you see that as the way it thus must be...whereas I hold out a sliver of hope that maybe all of this literal religious belief is part of the problem rather than the solution.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 10:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 11:37 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 263 by Taq, posted 11-27-2018 1:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
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ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 262 of 268 (844262)
11-27-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
11-26-2018 1:41 PM


Re: It Ain't Turkey Day
Phat writes:

Trump claims that the deals were all lopsided and bad for America.


Them crafty Canadians and Mexicans slickered us poor dumb American hillbillies agin, consarn it!

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 1:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7610
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 263 of 268 (844269)
11-27-2018 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
11-26-2018 1:41 PM


Re: It Ain't Turkey Day
Phat writes:

This seems to sum up what I see happening in the many conversations that I have with friends and coworkers of varied political leanings. My Christian friends are diverse to a degree, but most of the ones such as you who are Biblical Innerrenntists, support Mr.Trump. They feel that his disdain for political correctness and his rude charm represent honesty to them.

How do they deal with the large volumes of bald face lies that Trump tells?


If we are in the "last days" and the world is destined to go through a time of upheaval and change like no other before, I suppose that by building up our military again, Trump was doing his prophetic thing, but I fear that the rest of the world will end up hating us enough that they all may turn against us. Granted my beliefs are mirroring yours in this thread...except that I am a moderate and not as right wing as you are. Jesus said that the world will hate us because of Him...and you see that as the way it thus must be...whereas I hold out a sliver of hope that maybe all of this literal religious belief is part of the problem rather than the solution.

I would agree that there is a Zionist tone found in many policies within the Republican party. However, I doubt Trump even knows what "Zionist" means.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 1:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
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Posts: 3207
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 264 of 268 (844335)
11-28-2018 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
11-26-2018 1:41 PM


Re: It Ain't Turkey Day
To its credit, the Right has "saved" us from as rapid of a merge into "globalization" treaties and agreements.

While they give money away to corporations which are themselves globalized and who, in the interest of lowering expenses in order to increase profit, move manufacturing jobs overseas to where labor is cheaper. Of course, this has resulted in the world-wide level of poverty decreasing, which is a good thing but not for American workers who have lost their jobs.

And before someone pipes in about tax breaks for those corporations who bring their foreign money back into the USA, those same tax breaks have been tried a number of times in the past. Sure those corporations will take advantage of those "new" breaks, but with no lasting effect. Besides, they have lots of tricks to get their overseas dollars back into the US, such as making large in-house "loans" to their in-country divisions.

To {Trump's} credit, the one good thing I have seen him do (which some say is not even fully his credit) is rev the economy up again...

"again"? What do you call what Obama did for 8 years, pulling our economy out of Dubya's crapper to bring the stock market up to record highs multiple times? Since Trump took over, the market has just continued on the momentum from Obama. So why aren't you singing the praises of Obama?

All Trump's done has been to try to sabotage the economy with his tariffs and his blowing a huge hole in the deficit with his big welfare give-away to the rich (which he explicitly bragged about to his rich friends at Mar-a-lago). Well, now we are starting to see the effects of what Trump has done. Trump's tariffs have forced American companies to move overseas, resulting in the loss of jobs. For the first time in a decade, my stocks have shown a substantial loss -- news reports is that this downturn has already wiped out all gains made the entire year of 2018. And that is only the beginning.

As for "rev{ving} up the economy", that's not what's happening. The stock market was going up (until a little over a month ago) because the corporations were buying back their stock, resulting in an artificial inflation of their stock value which benefits the CEOs who are paid in part with stock. The extra free government money also went directly to the companies' shareholders. Both outcomes are exactly what the CEOs told everyone that they would do with all that extra money. Virtually none of it went to creating new jobs as promised, nor to pay raises as promised. Yes, some companies gave one-time bonuses, but not raises. And while most companies did not invest their new-found wealth into building up their companies, some did by installing even more automation in order to eliminate jobs.

Also, agriculture got very busy selling off as much crops as they could before Trump's tariffs and phony trade war started.

I retired half-way into January of this year. For decades I have used an Excel spreadsheet to figure out what I need to have withheld for income taxes (both my then-wife and I made about the same salary, but the formulae on the W-4 forms always had me withholding too little (thus threatening me with penalties should that persist) so I had to estimate my taxes in order to ensure that enough was being withheld from my pay. One thing I noticed with the new tax scam was that my federal withholding was less, so my take-home pay was more. Now, I have no idea what my taxes will actually be like this year nor does anybody else, but I'm sure that every working American has looked at their paycheck and has thought that they have gotten a big break -- they have more money! Doesn't anybody remember the Big Tax Break from George Bush I (Dubya's father)? His big tax break was to have less taken out through withholding so everybody's take-home pay would be more, but at the end of the year everybody still owed the same amount of tax. A huge swindle from the guy so out of touch with citizens' reality that he was fascinated by a grocery store's laser scanner, a technology which at that time was already about two decades old.

Basically, this entire GOP tax scam is based on trickle-down economics which has never worked and never will work. We saw this in Gov. Brownback's great Kansas experiment in which he created a trickle-down state economy which brought about economic ruin. At the same time, California faced with economic disaster from 2008 took the opposite approach and has emerged economically strong. In my engineering career, I called that the "Jello Test", as in "the proof of the pudding is in the eating." You have possible solutions to a problem. Run them and see what works. We have tried trickle-down and have found that it does not work. We have tried taxing the rich and that does work. Nu?

Within the past couple days, I saw (as I recall) a statistic that 65% of the US workforce has to work multiple jobs and still do not qualify as "middle class".

Now here's a Gedankenexperiment ("thought experiment") that I have conducted myself. Take the "tax break" and distribute it to amongst the 1% (as has already been done). Each one receives somewhere between $33,000 and $330,000 (the actual amount escapes me at the moment). What do they do with that extra money? Practically nothing, which starves the economy.

OK, in order to establish an economic baseline, let's take the opposite approach of looking at what will happen if, instead of dumping all kinds of money into the hands of the rich, the 1%, we were to distribute that same money to everybody else, the 99%.

As I recall hearing during the tax scam debates, each of the 1% would be getting $33,000. US population is about 308 million, so 1% of that would be about 3 million and 99% would be about 305 million. $33,000 to each of 3 million people adds up to about $100 billion (109). Now distributing that to each citizen equally, both the 1%-ers and the 99%-ers, and each citizen would receive about $325.

What would each person in the 99% do with $325? Spend it! Buy food, clothing, and other goods. What would that do for the economy? Sure, $325 doesn't sound like much, but when 305 million people are all spending $325 each, that adds up to $99 billion being injected into the economy. Now that would really rev up the economy.

But if we instead give all that $100 billion to the 3 million of the 1%, what would they do with that extra $33,000? Virtually nothing. All their basics needs (food, shelter, clothing) have already been met, so they don't any necessary expenses to put that money to. Maybe use it to buy a trinket or an expensive toy (the superyacht market is now booming). Or gamble with it (ie, stock market speculation). Or just shove it into a drawer (metaphorically speaking) and forget they even have it. Whatever they do with it, very little of it would find its way into the economy.

So instead of revving up the economy, Trump is starving it and trying to smother it.

Check out this video by 1%-er Abigail Disney (yes, that Disney): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH1NihRN5cU. She points out the growth of the superyacht industry, especially with CEOs getting so much richer off the inflated value of their stocks.

If we are in the "last days" and the world is destined to go through a time of upheaval and change like no other before, I suppose that by building up our military again, Trump was doing his prophetic thing, but I fear that the rest of the world will end up hating us enough that they all may turn against us.

Well, if it is the End Times, then why care what the rest of the world thinks of us? What part of "End Times" don't you understand?

Of course, the End Times have a long history of constantly happening. I even have a book on the history of the End of the World. We lived through all those previous End Times and there is no reason to assume that our current End Times will be any different.

The only difference is that we can do so much more damage now, so the real danger is the self-fulfilling prophesy. Take somebody who fervently believes that we are in the End Times and place him into a position of power where he could act on his beliefs and you just might be able to bring about the end of the world for real.

Trump is not a believer. The only way he could destroy the world is through sheer stupidity, the way that he's going now. However, Mike Pence (AKA "Mike Dense") is a believer.

Jesus said that the world will hate us because of Him...

Yet another case of self-fulfilling prophesy. Yes, there are people who do hate Christians, but it is very rarely because of Jesus. Rather, Christians are hated for themselves and for how they misbehave and mistreat others.

Unfortunately, a lot of Christians have a martyrdom fantasy that they keep playing out and which generates more hate. They put on a big show of how they are being oppressed and persecuted, which is very rich since they are by large the oppressors and the persecutors.

...whereas I hold out a sliver of hope that maybe all of this literal religious belief is part of the problem rather than the solution.

Yes, it is most definitely part of the problem.


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 Message 261 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 1:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 265 of 268 (844857)
12-06-2018 5:23 PM


Ecuador Says Assange Can Leave Embassy
It is currently being reported that Ecuadorian president Lenin Moreno says that Wikileaks founder Julian Assange can leave the Ecuadorian embassy in London where he has been holed up for the past six years to avoid extradition to Sweden on sexual assault charges and to the United States on charges of publishing diplomatic and classified military information:


According to the articles, the Swedish charges have been dropped, and the UK has agreed not to extradite Assange, who would still have to face charges for skipping bail in the UK where jail time is estimated to be less than six months.

I'm not sure I believe this. Why would the UK agree not to extradite Assange to the US? Why wouldn't it cause a major diplomatic row between the two allies if they did, especially since, unbeknownst publicly until an accidental reveal a few weeks ago, the Justice Department intends to indict Assange on various matters, including related to Russian interference in the 2016 election.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by PaulK, posted 12-07-2018 12:12 AM Percy has responded
 Message 268 by Taq, posted 12-07-2018 2:31 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14545
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 266 of 268 (844863)
12-07-2018 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Percy
12-06-2018 5:23 PM


Re: Ecuador Says Assange Can Leave Embassy
At present there’s no request to extradite Assange. The UK government can freely agree not to act on imaginary requests. I doubt that they’ve promised anything more.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Percy, posted 12-06-2018 5:23 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Percy, posted 12-07-2018 8:11 AM PaulK has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 267 of 268 (844874)
12-07-2018 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by PaulK
12-07-2018 12:12 AM


Re: Ecuador Says Assange Can Leave Embassy
You're right, the US currently has no extradition request to the UK for Assange. Here's an article that explains a lot of details: If Assange Leaves the Ecuadorian Embassy, What Next?

The accidental reveal by the DoJ a few weeks ago indicated criminal charges against Assange are coming. If/when Assange leaves the Ecuadorian embassy he will face bail-jumping charges in the UK and be prohibited from leaving the country until those are settled, which would take months. There would be ample time for the US to file an extradition request with the UK. The UK would only honor it if the death penalty was ruled out, and if there were no competing extradition request from Sweden, which has the option of reinstituting the sexaul assault charges it dropped when it appeared Assange was safely ensconced in the Ecuadorian embassy, in which case the UK's home secretary would decide which request takes priority. Assange is convinced that if he were extradited to Sweden that it would just be a preliminary step to his extradition to the US.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by PaulK, posted 12-07-2018 12:12 AM PaulK has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7610
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 268 of 268 (844902)
12-07-2018 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Percy
12-06-2018 5:23 PM


Re: Ecuador Says Assange Can Leave Embassy
Percy writes:

I'm not sure I believe this. Why would the UK agree not to extradite Assange to the US?

That doesn't make any sense to me, either. There appears to be a 2003 treaty that formalizes extradition between the US and UK, so there doesn't appear to be any standing ban on extradition.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-16041824

This may be a signal from the Ecuadorian government that Assange should walk out before he is thrown out.


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