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Author Topic:   Is Tithing an ancient Israelite law ALONE or is it a post-Easter law too?
ringo
Member
Posts: 15774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 16 of 54 (840246)
09-26-2018 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
09-25-2018 4:39 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

We didn't make it up though. It has been part of dogma for centuries.


Don't be disingenuous. It doesn't matter whether it was made up centuries ago or yesterday. It was made up. It isn't in the Bible.

Phat writes:

What makes the vast body of apologists, preachers, teachers, and laymen willfully deluded?


Don't believe what Faith says about the vast majority of theologians that agree with her. The agreement is far from complete. And many of them wouldn't be "True Christians" anyway by Faith's standards. She's inclusive when she wants to inflate the numbers but very exclusive when it comes to specific issues.

Phat writes:

Are they in fact deluded or is it that you don't have an understanding of the necessity to know the messenger behind the basic message?


There is no necessity to know the messenger. In real life, you know that. You don't keep every envellope that comes in the mail, do you? You know that it's only the message that matters, so why do you keep bringing up that nonsense?

Phat writes:

Why is it that you avoid the leap of faith by continually asking how this is done?


Why don't you take a leap of faith instead of understanding how a bridge works?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 09-25-2018 4:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:09 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11632
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 17 of 54 (840247)
09-26-2018 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
09-26-2018 11:46 AM


Re: Who Do You Say That I Am?
Obviously people are making this stuff up - how else are there so many different opinions? If there was one truth there'd be one answer and we'd all know it.
That's where you conclude prematurely. We all would not know it.

The story was that god sent his son the earth to die to save us all.
More precisely, God became human (or communicated through a human) to establish a relationship and communication with us. That we fail to believe it is only because we would rather write our own script than follow the one laid out.
Despite that being utterly barking mad and obviously just the invention of primitive minds, the bloody prophesy described by the myth did not get fulfilled.
Which prophecy? That He came once? Ot that He will come again? Or perhaps that He is already here.
Not only is there no agreement on who, when and why we're supposed to be saved by this event we even know it didn't result in the predicted outcome.
Depends on which predictions you are talking about and your idea of how they should be interpreted and fulfilled.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 09-26-2018 11:46 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11632
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 18 of 54 (840249)
09-26-2018 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
09-26-2018 12:02 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
ringo writes:

There is no necessity to know the messenger.

You keep insisting that messengers are like envelopes. It also means that you only know whom you find value in knowing.
You know that it's only the message that matters, so why do you keep bringing up that nonsense?
Because I don't only find value in the message. You want me to go do a bunch of work when I don't even know whom I'm working for. I would hardly waste a bunch of sweat on the socialist worker's party, for example. I want to work for someone with integrity and wisdom.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 12:02 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 09-26-2018 12:15 PM Phat has responded
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 12:19 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 19 of 54 (840250)
09-26-2018 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
09-26-2018 10:49 AM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
But Faith and the whole Biblical Inerrancy cult claim that God directed or wrote all the material in the Bible. Faith claimed in the post I was replying to that God directed and controlled the canon.

The fact is that there is not one canon but rather many different canons and as I pointed out, the ONLY books that are common to ALL of the Christian Canons are the first five books of the OLD TESTAMENT and none of the New Testament is common to all Christian Canons.

Phat writes:

First we have to come to some consensus on whether God has an interest in the evolving activities of humans or whether He is so lofty and unknowable that we will forever be clueless of His outlook and perspective on creation in general.

Well, what does the evidence show?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 10:49 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:13 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 12:55 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11632
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 20 of 54 (840251)
09-26-2018 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
09-26-2018 12:10 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
I submit that we ourselves are the evidence. What do we show?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 09-26-2018 12:10 PM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 21 of 54 (840252)
09-26-2018 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
09-26-2018 12:09 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

I would hardly waste a bunch of sweat on the socialist worker's party, for example.

But it is the Socialist Workers Party that is most likely to see that you get a retirement, health care, a union, and food & clothing.

Which brings us to tithing. Which group is more likely to support modern tithing, the Republicans or the Socialist Workers Party?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:20 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 22 of 54 (840253)
09-26-2018 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
09-26-2018 12:09 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

You keep insisting that messengers are like envelopes.


You've never shown any difference.

Phat writes:

You want me to go do a bunch of work when I don't even know whom I'm working for.


Nonsense. You know exactly who the work is for.

Phat writes:

I want to work for someone with integrity and wisdom.


The "integrity and wisdom" is made up. From past performance, we know that your God is a mass murderer. And the doctrines that you attribute to him are utterly, utterly stupid. "Kill my son and we'll call it even," is so infernally stupid that you should throw up when you claim to believe it. The drunk asking for spare change has far more integrity and wisdom than your God.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:42 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11632
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 23 of 54 (840254)
09-26-2018 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
09-26-2018 12:15 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Which group is more likely to support modern tithing, the Republicans or the Socialist Workers Party?
The Socialists want all of your money to be devoted to the common good. The republicans advicate a choice to contribute as long as there is a tax break. jesus works by changing the human heart. Socialists will never make a better world while 5% control 90% of the resources. They will only force all of us left to support all of us.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 09-26-2018 12:15 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 09-26-2018 2:09 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11632
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 24 of 54 (840256)
09-26-2018 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
09-26-2018 12:19 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
So, in other words, you work for the people. As I told jar, the socialists will never make a better world by forcingus to support all of us. Without the 90% wealth of the top 5% it wont happen. Only God can change the human heart. We wont simply go to work for the people and believe that it will all turn out ok. It wont.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 12:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 12:51 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 25 of 54 (840261)
09-26-2018 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
09-26-2018 12:42 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

As I told jar, the socialists will never make a better world by forcingus to support all of us.


You're wrong. They already have.

Phat writes:

Only God can change the human heart.


Wrong again. THAT has been demonstrated not to work. Look at the number of Christians in prison, for example.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:42 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:03 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30216
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 26 of 54 (840262)
09-26-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
09-26-2018 12:10 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
The fact is that there is not one canon but rather many different canons and as I pointed out, the ONLY books that are common to ALL of the Christian Canons are the first five books of the OLD TESTAMENT and none of the New Testament is common to all Christian Canons.

Not only are there different canons there are bogus "original manuscripts" of the Bible too, even the very earliest ones. There are heretics in every generation who influence such things, but God has preserved His word nevertheless. Our job is spiritual discernment. If you regard all those products as equal you are certainly going to be utterly unable to reoognize the truth.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 09-26-2018 12:10 PM jar has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11632
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 27 of 54 (840264)
09-26-2018 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by ringo
09-26-2018 12:51 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
look at the number of any group in prison...aside from perhaps Orthodox Jews, they are all represented numerically.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 12:51 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 1:17 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 28 of 54 (840268)
09-26-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
09-26-2018 1:03 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
phat writes:

look at the number of any group in prison...aside from perhaps Orthodox Jews, they are all represented numerically.


Better check your facts. But the point is that if God changes hearts, as you claim, there should be disproportionately fewer Christians in prison. If He was any good at it, there should be none at all.

Conclusion: "God changes hearts" is an empty claim.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:03 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:19 PM ringo has responded
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 1:23 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11632
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 29 of 54 (840269)
09-26-2018 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
09-26-2018 1:17 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
The ones who have unregenerate hearts likely ignored the messenger and made up their own message. To your credit, humans can and do make up good messages to themselves also...but I would argue that it is evidence of a changed or changing heart. Not everyone has good motives.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 1:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 1:22 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 30 of 54 (840272)
09-26-2018 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
09-26-2018 1:19 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

The ones who have unregenerate hearts likely ignored the messenger and made up their own message.


That doesn't even make sense. It's the one's who put importance on the messenger who are making up their own message.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:19 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:28 PM ringo has responded

  
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