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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
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Posts: 715
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1 of 71 (843755)
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


I've been looking for a practical use in applied science for the information that all life on earth evolved from a microbe that existed billions of years ago, but can't find any. It seems to me that the whole Universal Common Ancestor thing is completely irrelevant and useless outside the realm of evolutionary theory.
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Adminnemooseus
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Posts: 3871
Joined: 09-26-2002


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Message 2 of 71 (843756)
11-21-2018 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


Pre-approval comment
I would argue that as we go back in time, any historical event becomes increasing irrelevant to modern times. But it still is information on how things are thought to have become what they are today.

Is there anything relevant and useful in knowing who your grandparents were, say 40 generations back?

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3871
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 71 (843758)
11-21-2018 2:22 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Tangle
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Posts: 6352
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(4)
Message 4 of 71 (843759)
11-21-2018 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


Dredge writes:

It seems to me that the whole Universal Common Ancestor thing is completely irrelevant and useless outside the realm of evolutionary theory.

Perhaps it is, but so what? Is your concen that in unearthing this knowledge it will further undermine a few fundamentalists' beliefs?

Or are you generally against the persuit of knowledge for its own sake?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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AZPaul3
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Posts: 3518
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 5 of 71 (843769)
11-21-2018 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


... the whole Universal Common Ancestor thing is completely irrelevant and useless outside the realm of evolutionary theory.

The theory of evolution has major significance to everything from medicine thru genetics, biology, chemistry, agriculture thru psychology and on, let alone just answering the simple questions of how we are the way we are and what might we expect in the future. Anything that impacts the evolutionary sciences, especially something as significant to the theory as the Universal Common Ancestor proposal, is not irrelevant to all that followed.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


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 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:27 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 6 of 71 (843776)
11-21-2018 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


Dredge writes:

Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?


Do we really need to know that the world is round? If we thought it was flat, wouldn't we still have figured out how to get from A to B?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
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Posts: 1895
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 7 of 71 (843783)
11-21-2018 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


I've been looking for a practical use in applied science for the information that all life on earth evolved from a microbe that existed billions of years ago, but can't find any.

Have you really? Why?

One of the interesting things about knowledge, it doesn't disappear if you can't find a practical use for it.

Another interesting thing is, when humans study things they learn things that may be practical and things that may not be practical. I'm surprised you didn't realize that.

Scientists are by nature curious and the mysteries of how life works and how life originated are interesting subjects that scientists want to understand. Creationism and religion do not give any useful details, so we have to rely on scientific methods if we want to really understand anything.

If you don't want to know about these things it is pretty easy to ignore. If you want us to stop studying it, all I can say is, piss off.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 8 of 71 (843787)
11-21-2018 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by AZPaul3
11-21-2018 10:18 AM


Name one.
The theory of evolution has major significance to everything from medicine ...

No it doesn't. Name one useful thing medicine has taken from the ToE.

...thru genetics,

Nope. Oh it isn't that you all don't mentally apply the ToE to the sciences, which unfortunately you do, but without any useful application whatever, and in fact it most likely misleads the scientist in ways that may never be detected until it's too late.

...biology,

Name one use. Keep in mind that we know genetic variation is built into each Kind or Species, known as "microevolution."

chemistry,

Name one. See above.

agriculture

Name one. Lots of room here for confusion with genetics which is not the ToE, and with microevolution.

thru psychology

Nothing but weird speculation, nothing at all really useful.

and on, let alone just answering the simple questions of how we are the way we are and what might we expect in the future. Anything that impacts the evolutionary sciences, especially something as significant to the theory as the Universal Common Ancestor proposal, is not irrelevant to all that followed.

Etc etc etc etc etc. You won't be able to name one single actually useful application of the ToE for any of the above. You'll either confuse it with microevolution or with the true knowledge from the science that has nothing to do with the ToE.

Cheers.

abe: Oh, and as for the idea that science may be knowledge for knowledge's sake, the ToE doesn't qualify for that either because it's just an elaborate mental construction that can't be proved, so isn't in fact knowledge at all.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3518
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 9 of 71 (843788)
11-21-2018 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:27 PM


Re: Name one.
Sorry. Love. I'm not responding to your crazy today.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 10 of 71 (843789)
11-21-2018 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by AZPaul3
11-21-2018 12:31 PM


Re: Name one.
Because you can't. I'm right.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2018 12:31 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 11 of 71 (843792)
11-21-2018 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:32 PM


Re: Name one.
Faith writes:

Because you can't. I'm right.


All you have is denial. No matter how anybody answers you, you'll just deny, deny, deny.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:32 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:55 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 12 of 71 (843795)
11-21-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by ringo
11-21-2018 12:44 PM


Re: Name one.
No, whatever you say to demonstrate the usefulness of the ToE to any science, which neither you nor AZ has done, which is of course telling, can be shown to be nothing but mental castle-building because there is no actual usefulness. As I said, you'll either confuse it with what the science itself does actually know completely apart from the ToE, or with the known fact that Species or Kinds do have built in ability to vary but only within the Kind. There is no evidence whatever, just theory and tnothing but theory, that says variation continues beyond the Kind. Perhaps you can at least show some usefulness for the fact of microevolution, I'm not sure.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1895
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 13 of 71 (843797)
11-21-2018 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:55 PM


Re: Name one.
Knowing that it pisses you off gives me a warm feeling inside.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 14 of 71 (843798)
11-21-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:55 PM


Re: Name one.
Scientists can decide for themselves whether or not something is useful to them. They don't need to take your misunderstanding into account.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 1:26 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3518
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 15 of 71 (843801)
11-21-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:32 PM


Re: Name one.
Because you can't. I'm right.

No. Because I don't want to.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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