Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 115 (8796 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-20-2017 1:11 AM
333 online now:
Coyote, DC85, PaulK (3 members, 330 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Upcoming Birthdays: Flyer75
Happy Birthday: Astrophile
Post Volume:
Total: 820,882 Year: 25,488/21,208 Month: 1,115/2,338 Week: 236/450 Day: 1/55 Hour: 1/0

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456
...
15NextFF
Author Topic:   The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil.
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 225 (68669)
11-22-2003 9:15 PM


Just tonight on Fox News it was announced that an old Hindu man has lived for 66 years without food or water. According to the source, this has been verified by medical doctors and people come to him to pay respect and reverence. The observers have determined that his energy comes from some metaphysical or spiritual power. The man himself attributes it to a certain goddess who he has been devoted to and worships.

Having cited the above, I recall back in the 60's I heard a Christian and Missionary Alliance missionary speak at our church who had just returned to the states on furlough from a deep pagan tribe in the jungles of New Guinea and told the story of his ministry there in a remote pagan tribe. he said that when he first arrived at the village he knew he must deal with this witch woman who had total spiritual dominance and authority in the village because of her powers. Upon investigation and inquiry he learned that this woman had lived a much longer life than any human was able to live, something like 160 years or so, if I recollect accurately.
He determined upon a plan to fast and pray for three days after which he would confront the woman whom he had determined to be demon possessed. After his fast, there was to be a public spiritual exercise of the village at which all the villagers were to be present and the woman would do her ritual thing. As it commenced, he approached the woman and rebuked the demon, demanding it leave the woman's body. To his amazement and the amazement of all present, the woman fell dead. He determined that the woman was kept alive solely by the demon she was posessed of and that her body became nothing but a shell/house for the demon to live and operate.

After the exorcism there ensued a great spiritual Biblical awakening in the village and the majority of the villagers embraced Christianity, making his mission a great success. I believe there was still cannabalistic tribes in the nation's jungles as late as this, but do not recall that this village practiced cannibalism. I don't believe so.

I believe the man cited on Fox has been living on demonic power. What think ye about this and other supernatural evil?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 11-22-2003 9:19 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 5 by Eta_Carinae, posted 11-23-2003 1:41 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 8 by sidelined, posted 11-23-2003 8:28 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 11-23-2003 9:49 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 30 by Primordial Egg, posted 11-25-2003 7:59 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 31 by Rei, posted 11-25-2003 1:29 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 46 by Silent H, posted 11-30-2003 2:36 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 130 by Prozacman, posted 12-31-2003 4:07 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8800
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2 of 225 (68670)
11-22-2003 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:15 PM


Fox news eh? I presume there are sources a little more reliable than fox news that we can refer to. LOL -- fox news! ROFL
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:15 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:33 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 225 (68675)
11-22-2003 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by NosyNed
11-22-2003 9:19 PM


Ned, a whole lot of us consider Fox to be the most unbiased and objective newscasts of the Networks. I'm on dish and no ability to access cable. I pay about a hundred dollars additional a year just to get the package that includes Fox.

At any rate Fox gave no official opinion as to the network's opinion of this. They simply covered it as newsworthy. At least Fox is not so phobic of the supernatural that they would not consider it newsworthy.

------------------
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-22-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 11-22-2003 9:19 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Rrhain, posted 11-24-2003 2:07 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 43 by nator, posted 11-30-2003 9:02 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 225 (68707)
11-23-2003 12:47 AM


Just tonight on Fox News it was announced that an old Hindu man has lived for 66 years without food or water.

They've been watching him? He never eats? How do they know?

I heard

I think that's all I needed to hear about your other story. We're supposed to take a third-hand account seriously?


  
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 1933 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 5 of 225 (68708)
11-23-2003 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:15 PM


What a load of superstitious cr*p.

********** News just in ************

This is the 21st century not the 11th century.

Demon posession - LOL LOL

Next you shall be requesting we drill holes in their heads to let the 'evil spirits' out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:15 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Yaro, posted 11-23-2003 2:55 AM Eta_Carinae has not yet responded
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 8:09 AM Eta_Carinae has not yet responded

    
Yaro
Member (Idle past 4054 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 6 of 225 (68710)
11-23-2003 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Eta_Carinae
11-23-2003 1:41 AM


FOX news! LOL! Unbiased! LOL

Same sentance too!!! OH MY!!!! ROFLMAO


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Eta_Carinae, posted 11-23-2003 1:41 AM Eta_Carinae has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 225 (68722)
11-23-2003 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Eta_Carinae
11-23-2003 1:41 AM


Well, now, wait a minute.

Let's be clear on the reason we're rejecting these reports. We're rejecting them because they're unsubstantiated third-hand or worse anecdotes, and that's little basis for overturning 2000 years of medical science.

The mere fact that they seem improbable or even impossible according to our medical models is irrelevant. If they happened, they happened, and our models would be in error.

But we don't know that they happened, because there's no evidence that they did, and there's a considerable weight of evidence that suggests thatsch happenings are impossible.

But just because the idea of demon possession is medeval, that's not itself sufficient to reject these reports.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Eta_Carinae, posted 11-23-2003 1:41 AM Eta_Carinae has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2003 11:38 AM crashfrog has responded

  
sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 8 of 225 (68726)
11-23-2003 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:15 PM


buzsaw
In your post.

Just tonight on Fox News it was announced that an old Hindu man has lived for 66 years without food or water. According to the source, this has been verified by medical doctors and people come to him to pay respect and reverence.

Have you bothered to track down the facts or did this not seem just a little too fantastic for you?[66 bloody YEARS man!] Who were the medical doctors? They most certainly must have records of such an incredible event.This also needs to be asked why would medical doctors be any better at determining the facts than somebody else?

The observers have determined that his energy comes from some metaphysical or spiritual power.

Really? Do medical doctors have tests that they can conduct to determine metaphysical or spiritual powers?[Does yours?] Just how do you observe something like that? Did the newscast say what instruments they used or what expertise medical doctors have in this field?

I recall back in the 60's I heard a Christian and Missionary Alliance missionary speak at our church who had just returned to the states on furlough from a deep pagan tribe in the jungles of New Guinea and told the story of his ministry there in a remote pagan tribe. he said that when he first arrived at the village he knew he must deal with this witch woman who had total spiritual dominance and authority in the village because of her powers. Upon investigation and inquiry he learned that this woman had lived a much longer life than any human was able to live, something like 160 years or so, if I recollect accurately.

I am confused here. Is this a deep pagan tribe or a remote pagan tribe? Seriously now.What calender did this deep remote pagan tribe go by that they were able to establish 160 years as being accurate? Did the missionary have a name and did he leave records of his journey? How did he determine her age accurately? If the woman had absolute authority over this village then how did he glean any information?

He determined upon a plan to fast and pray for three days after which he would confront the woman whom he had determined to be demon possessed. After his fast, there was to be a public spiritual exercise of the village at which all the villagers were to be present and the woman would do her ritual thing. As it commenced, he approached the woman and rebuked the demon, demanding it leave the woman's body. To his amazement and the amazement of all present, the woman fell dead. He determined that the woman was kept alive solely by the demon she was posessed of and that her body became nothing but a shell/house for the demon to live and operate.

The woman fell dead and after this they were able to determine that she had been kept alive solely by the the demon she was possesed of.
How did they determine that? Is there a blood test or something for this?

Did YOU question any of this? What is the name of this tribe and are they able to be contacted by any means to determine their side of the story?

Please feel free to answer me at your earliest convenience.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:15 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2003 12:01 PM sidelined has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5292
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 9 of 225 (68730)
11-23-2003 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:15 PM


The observers have determined that his energy comes from some metaphysical or spiritual power. The man himself attributes it to a certain goddess who he has been devoted to and worships.

Proving that that particular goddess is the Only True God (TM)? I always thought Ganesh was sorta cute, myself....
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:15 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 225 (68733)
11-23-2003 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by crashfrog
11-23-2003 8:09 AM


Thanks Crashy. Good post.

------------------
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 8:09 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 5:19 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 225 (68734)
11-23-2003 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by sidelined
11-23-2003 8:28 AM


quote:

Have you bothered to track down the facts or did this not seem just a little too fantastic for you?[66 bloody YEARS man!] Who were the medical doctors? They most certainly must have records of such an incredible event.This also needs to be asked why would medical doctors be any better at determining the facts than somebody else?

I dono. I'm just re-reporting the news from Fox. Then I'm coupling this with the other which I figure to be very reliable. I have complete confidence that the missionary was telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. This woman being the most prominent member of the tribe, would suggest that the members of the tribe knew her age, as their parents would've known her.

quote:

Really? Do medical doctors have tests that they can conduct to determine metaphysical or spiritual powers?[Does yours?] Just how do you observe something like that? Did the newscast say what instruments they used or what expertise medical doctors have in this field?

They determined this as a process of elimination. If he hadn't eaten or drank for 66 years, go figure. I've given all the particulars I remember from the newscast.

quote:

I am confused here. Is this a deep pagan tribe or a remote pagan tribe? Seriously now.What calender did this deep remote pagan tribe go by that they were able to establish 160 years as being accurate? Did the missionary have a name and did he leave records of his journey? How did he determine her age accurately? If the woman had absolute authority over this village then how did he glean any information?

My bad. It was a remote pagan tribe deep in the jungle. Calendar? They knew the seasons and could count the years. How did he glean info? A no brainer. Simply ask the people. She wouldn't have power over every little thing they said, now, would she?

quote:

The woman fell dead and after this they were able to determine that she had been kept alive solely by the the demon she was possesed of.
How did they determine that? Is there a blood test or something for this?

1. People just don't live that long do they?
2. The fact that she fell dead at the exorcism would indicate that the demon was her life source/power.

This has been 40+ years ago. I'm going solely on the integrity of the missionary. Very likely this could be searched out by contacting the Christian Missionary Alliance missions dept if you want to find more. I don't have time to engage in this much research. If I find out anything I'll holler.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by sidelined, posted 11-23-2003 8:28 AM sidelined has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 225 (68779)
11-23-2003 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
11-23-2003 11:38 AM


Thanks Crashy. Good post.

Well, no matter what side you're on, it's dogmatic thinking to reject something soley because it contradicts your model. The universe is. Our models merely approximate it.

Nonetheless I think these stories are bogus, but not because medical science says so. They're bogus because "these stories were told by liars" fits a lot more data, and is a lot simpler, than "these stories are true because biblical demonology is true, despite the weight of evidence to the contrary."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2003 11:38 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2003 5:39 PM crashfrog has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 225 (68783)
11-23-2003 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
11-23-2003 5:19 PM


Evidence that demons don't exist? Like what evidence?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 5:19 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 5:44 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 225 (68789)
11-23-2003 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Buzsaw
11-23-2003 5:39 PM


Evidence that demons don't exist? Like what evidence?

What would they be? What would they be made out of? How would they possess or influence humans if they're not made of matter?

If they exist, then why can everything they're said to do be explained by normal, non-supernatural processes? Why assume they exist if there's nothing that requires demons to explain?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2003 5:39 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2003 6:05 PM crashfrog has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 225 (68802)
11-23-2003 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by crashfrog
11-23-2003 5:44 PM


quote:
What would they be? What would they be made out of? How would they possess or influence humans if they're not made of matter?

If they exist, then why can everything they're said to do be explained by normal, non-supernatural processes? Why assume they exist if there's nothing that requires demons to explain?


But you stated that there's a "weight of evidence" that contradicts their existence. Please document the evidence. There's lots of things existing which have never been seen. We only know they exist because of the effect they make in the universe. Some, including myself, have experienced the effects of demons. What's your weight of evidence they are lying or in error?

Your statement:
"these stories are true because biblical demonology is true, despite the weight of evidence to the contrary."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-23-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 5:44 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 6:41 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-30-2003 1:00 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
1
23456
...
15NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017