Why debate?

1)An adherant of any other faith could claim the exact same thing, what makes them wrong and you right? Shame on you KP for not believing in Marks galactic goat.....
---they do claim that but since i have faith in christ i know better than to believe in their false idols and beliefs.2)Raises an interesting question how do you acquire faith? It seems to me that faith i.e. a non evidence based belief in some postulate can not be intentionally developed, but is rather an intrinsic capacity....So if you cannot intentionally acquire faith does this mean that there is no point to reading the bible because "without this faith your study is meaningless."?
---i agree with you on that, faith is acquired whenever you acquire it. for me it took a while but it is different for others.3)There is a difference science encourages well conducted attempts to re-interpret the evidence and even replace entire theories.....
--science is then assumptions based on facts, meaning its based on facts but any assumptions made on top of that is pure theory and does help us understand things but it should be made clear to everyone that thats how it works. faith is based on nothing, other than the soul, and is supported with facts but theyre not entirely necessary.4)So what are Odin, Zeus, Apollo, Horus, Ahura Mazda, Kali, the Dagda, Neptune, Allah et al?They are deities so claiming that your God is THE singular deity is an interesting assertion....You may have had religious instruction but you would do well to learn about other faiths than christianity.....
---no one believes in most of those deities anymore, not that that really matters, and those other religions are free to imagine any deities they want to. The only deity/god that actually exists is the one described in the bible and is the God that i have faith in.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

quote:

---

Originally posted by redstang281:
The Bible interests you?

​

---

I would have to say yes here. It does interest me, but before you get all excited I will explain...I would like to explain how different books fit into my life:
COOKBOOK - So I can learn to make very tasty suppers.
SCIENCE BOOKS - So I can learn how things work, how our hearts beat.
THE BIBLE - So I can learn about religion. As well, I can make informed decisions in what I believe.Now I, unlike some, use each book for its all intensive purpose. I do not read the cookbook looking for how our hearts beat. The same goes with Science Books, I do not read a science book looking for a moral or ethical answer. I also do not take the bible as literally as Creationists. I believe the bible to be a book of story's that teaches us life lessons, guides us spiritually. Teaches us right from wrong.If I am wrong and the bible is meant to show how the earth came to be 'scientifically'. Then it is missing a whole lotta info...makes no mention of any Massive Dinosaur populations or that he placed the fossil record here for us in an attempt to decieve us. No mention of Nuclear Power, for that matter...no scriptures leading us to the discovery of Nuclear Power.Which leaves me to my final question...Why can't people seperate the Bible from Science?--Scientists Specialize in Science, Priests Specialize in Religion. So wheres the discrepancy?

​

[This message has been edited by no2creation, 02-16-2002]

quote:

---

Originally posted by no2creation:
I would have to say yes here. It does interest me, but before you get all excited I will explain...

​

I would like to explain how different books fit into my life:
COOKBOOK - So I can learn to make very tasty suppers.
SCIENCE BOOKS - So I can learn how things work, how our hearts beat.
THE BIBLE - So I can learn about religion. As well, I can make informed decisions in what I believe.

​

Now I, unlike some, use each book for its all intensive purpose. I do not read the cookbook looking for how our hearts beat. The same goes with Science Books, I do not read a science book looking for a moral or ethical answer. I also do not take the bible as literally as Creationists. I believe the bible to be a book of story's that teaches us life lessons, guides us spiritually. Teaches us right from wrong.

​

If I am wrong and the bible is meant to show how the earth came to be 'scientifically'. Then it is missing a whole lotta info...makes no mention of any Massive Dinosaur populations or that he placed the fossil record here for us in an attempt to decieve us. No mention of Nuclear Power, for that matter...no scriptures leading us to the discovery of Nuclear Power.

​

Which leaves me to my final question...Why can't people seperate the Bible from Science?

​

--Scientists Specialize in Science, Priests Specialize in Religion. So wheres the discrepancy?

​

[This message has been edited by no2creation, 02-16-2002]

---

i agree the bible is NOT a scientific journal nor was never meant to be. it was how god explained things to man and what they wrote about their experiences so that we could get a better understanding of life. the bible is not about religion though its about faith in god, religion is based after the bible not the other way around.p.s. i still want you to change your name ------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:
i agree the bible is NOT a scientific journal nor was never meant to be. it was how god explained things to man and what they wrote about their experiences so that we could get a better understanding of life.

---

Ok. I would almost agree, except I am not convinced the bible to be Non-Ficticous. Adam and Eve would be an example of this.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:
the bible is not about religion though its about faith in god, religion is based after the bible not the other way around.

---

I agree, I was trying to say: By Reading the Bible I can understand 'A' religion. Without reading any material based on the teachings of God, how will I learn the inner workings of religion(s).

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:

p.s. i still want you to change your name

---

I don't understand the reason why. This forum is in fact Creation vs Evolution, and I am merely displayin who's side I am on...

no2creationk. I would almost agree, except I am not convinced the bible to be Non-Ficticous. Adam and Eve would be an example of this.
kingpenguin:how so?no2creation:I don't understand the reason why. This forum is in fact Creation vs Evolution, and I am merely displayin who's side I am on...
kingpenguin: are you an evolutionist? if so then your name doesnt say so if thats what you were going for. its also just a little blunt.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

​

[This message has been edited by KingPenguin, 02-16-2002]

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:
1)they do claim that but since i have faith in christ i know better than to believe in their false idols and beliefs.

​

2)i agree with you on that, faith is acquired whenever you acquire it. for me it took a while but it is different for others.

​

3)science is then assumptions based on facts, meaning its based on facts but any assumptions made on top of that is pure theory and does help us understand things but it should be made clear to everyone that thats how it works. faith is based on nothing, other than the soul, and is supported with facts but theyre not entirely necessary.

​

4)no one believes in most of those deities anymore, not that that really matters, and those other religions are free to imagine any deities they want to. The only deity/god that actually exists is the one described in the bible and is the God that i have faith in.

---

1)But fella anyone could say the exact same thing of their beliefs... How do you KNOW which is the false belief?2)So is there no point in reading the bible if you don`t believe?3)But, and this is important, if the theory is contradicted by fresh evidence it is discarded thus science remains vital and doesn`t sink into dogma....4)No one believes in Allah? Besides the point is rather that people have believed in them, would your God cease to be a deity if everyone in the 23rd century worshiped Marks galactic goat instead? The point is bud that there ar4e more than one deities out there and yelling I believe in the right one isn`t a good justification for consigning the others to the level of "false idols and beliefs"....

quote:

---

Originally posted by joz:
1)But fella anyone could say the exact same thing of their beliefs... How do you KNOW which is the false belief?

​

2)So is there no point in reading the bible if you don`t believe?

​

3)But, and this is important, if the theory is contradicted by fresh evidence it is discarded thus science remains vital and doesn`t sink into dogma....

​

4)No one believes in Allah? Besides the point is rather that people have believed in them, would your God cease to be a deity if everyone in the 23rd century worshiped Marks galactic goat instead? The point is bud that there ar4e more than one deities out there and yelling I believe in the right one isn`t a good justification for consigning the others to the level of "false idols and beliefs"....

---

1) you can believe whatever you want.
2) you dont gain anything spiritually, which is whats its for.
3) i forget to mention that bit.
4) my God is the true and only god but you can burn in hell and believe in false idols if you wish, they wont get you anywhere but the firey abyss. its more than enough justification, he gave you your life and then you flick him off and say "i dont believe in you. if there is a god then why is there suffering? i need proof to believe in God." God doesnt need proove himself to you but you definetly need to prove your worthy of Christ's salvation.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:
1) you can believe whatever you want.
2) you dont gain anything spiritually, which is whats its for.
3) i forget to mention that bit.
4) my God is the true and only god but you can burn in hell and believe in false idols if you wish, they wont get you anywhere but the firey abyss. its more than enough justification, he gave you your life and then you flick him off and say "i dont believe in you. if there is a god then why is there suffering? i need proof to believe in God." God doesnt need proove himself to you but you definetly need to prove your worthy of Christ's salvation.

---

1)see 4)2)*Back of the line for you then mr KJV*3)So science is more than just any old theory isn`t it its theories that succeed in describing repeatedly observed phenomena....4)So believe anything you want or elsewould be a better responce to 1), it is interesting that other religions don`t hold the same intollerant opinions of (all) their rivals...In Islam for example when Isa (Jesus) comes to battle the anti-christ it is foretold that christians will convert to Islam and enter heaven (the jews are buggered as they never accepted Jesus)....Are you sure you like the intolerance of your sect?

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:

​

1)But fella anyone could say the exact same thing of their beliefs... How do you KNOW which is the false belief?

​

1) you can believe whatever you want.

​

---

Well, yes you can. But those beliefs are without value if you cannot attribute reason to them. Does Purple fairies pushing asteroids about have value as a belief? No.So, what reason do you have for believing other religions are false idols, to give your belief some value?Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

​

[This message has been edited by mark24, 02-16-2002]

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:
...Adam and Eve would be an example of this.
kingpenguin:how so?

---

Well, because it violates the first law of thermodynamics...you couldn't possibly create another full size human with just one rib.

quote:

---

...I don't understand the reason why. This forum is in fact Creation vs Evolution, and I am merely displayin who's side I am on...
kingpenguin: are you an evolutionist? if so then your name doesnt say so if thats what you were going for. its also just a little blunt.

---

Like I said, I am merely displaying whos side I am on. Do I believe in Evolution? YES. Do I believe in Creationism? NO. As for being blunt about it, I guess I achieved the 'Shock' value I was trying for.

​

​

[This message has been edited by no2creation, 02-16-2002]

Penguin, I was raised a CHRISTIAN. I have had more years of religious instruction than you have had years of LIFE. I went to Bible classes. I read the Bible. I had faith. I believed in Christ.Of course, I was never a creationist, so my lack of faith has nothing to do with my acceptance of the evidence for evolution.See, my denomination did not require me to ignore science.Apparently, your non-acceptance of the evidence for evolution is based upon nothing more than plain, garden variety ignorance.Also, the intolerant, arrogant attitude you display towards anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is precisely what the Taliban is all about. That's what allowed the Spanish inquisition, the Crusades, the ethnic genocide in the Balkans, and the terrorism in Ireland and between Israel and Palestine to happen.I am sorry that this is a tough one for you, but it is most certainly a attitude that you share with the Taliban and others, and it is dangerous.Do not complain that you get jumped on for not knowing about scientific theories and evidence if you are going to make claims such as "evolution doesn't happen", or "evolution is just an idea, not really a theory". These are claims which are demonstrably false and if you can't back them up, you shouldn't make them.This is a debate club, not a "let's all share our opinions and treat them equally" club.------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

​

[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-17-2002]

[QUOTE]4)So what are Odin, Zeus, Apollo, Horus, Ahura Mazda, Kali, the Dagda, Neptune, Allah et al?They are deities so claiming that your God is THE singular deity is an interesting assertion....You may have had religious instruction but you would do well to learn about other faiths than christianity.....
---no one believes in most of those deities anymore, not that that really matters, and those other religions are free to imagine any deities they want to. The only deity/god that actually exists is the one described in the bible and is the God that i have faith in.
[/B][/QUOTE]Almost nobody believes in Allah? The last time I checked, there are around a BILLION Hindus in India who believe in Kali, a Hindu god.You really don't know much about other religions, do you?There are FAR, FAR, more non-Christians than Christians in the world, you know.------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

Nobody believes in Allah? Didn't you realize that Islam just might overtake Christianity as humanity's leading religion sometime in the next few decades? Seems that Islam is growing faster than the global human population. http://www.religioustolerance.org/growth_isl_chr.htm

wow you took that out of context. i did say most of those deities arent even believed in anymore, not all of them.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

quote:

---

Originally posted by joz:
1)see 4)

​

2)*Back of the line for you then mr KJV*

​

3)So science is more than just any old theory isn`t it its theories that succeed in describing repeatedly observed phenomena....

​

4)So believe anything you want or elsewould be a better responce to 1), it is interesting that other religions don`t hold the same intollerant opinions of (all) their rivals...

​

In Islam for example when Isa (Jesus) comes to battle the anti-christ it is foretold that christians will convert to Islam and enter heaven (the jews are buggered as they never accepted Jesus)....

​

Are you sure you like the intolerance of your sect?

---

2)okay.....
3)yep4)that tolerance is just a way of convincing more people and making them look better. it is also kinda funny how so many religions are antijew, poor them.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi