Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   I Am Not An Atheist!
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 27 of 382 (497134)
02-01-2009 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Buzsaw
02-01-2009 8:17 PM


Re: An eye opener for Buz
Hey Buz,
Something I cannot understand is how theistic evolutionists are not considered creationists, Christian evolutionists in particular. If they're Christian, they are Biblicalists of some sort and the Bible is most certainly creationist. \If 66% of evolutionists are theistic, that's a lot of creationists.
Because, Buz, the problem is not really between creationists, per se and science in general and evolution in particular -- the problem is between people who believe falsehoods and those that don't want those falsehoods taught as reality.
A creationist that believes in an old world and evolution is not at odds with reality, not trying to pretend a valid science is false, and most particularly not trying to force silly falsified beliefs into school science classes.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2009 8:17 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 241 of 382 (498548)
02-11-2009 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Straggler
02-11-2009 6:26 PM


Re: God and god
So according to you the ancient Greeks were atheists?
They did not believe in any gods. By your definition.
Ridiculous.
I believe it was Dawkins who said that the only difference between a theist and an atheist is the number of gods they don't believe in.
I also ran a survey asking people to rate various religions on a 10 point scale from good to evil, and it was the fundamentalists that had the highest antitheistic score.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Straggler, posted 02-11-2009 6:26 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Straggler, posted 02-11-2009 7:02 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 364 of 382 (670285)
08-12-2012 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by marc9000
08-11-2012 10:06 PM


Hi marc9000
marc9000 writes:
Anyone who is the slightest bit religious, anyone but the most militant of atheists, should show some interest, however slight, in Intelligent Design.
Since you believe deists are just atheists by another name, this deist/atheist is so interested in intelligent design that he dedicated an entire forum of his discussion board to it.
What that seems to have resulted in is an attractive looking place for atheists to shout down Intelligent Design, and give each other more and more ideas in how to further shout it down in places other than just these forums. If it was your attempt to genuinely search for new knowledge about Intelligent Design, and how it may fit with your religion, I don’t think it worked out very well for you. A quick glance through that forum showed me one of your messages on it, a complete dismissal of ID.
What I generally find is that ID proponents are
  1. not completely committed to ID, they want to have their religion kept as well, choosing their religion when it comes to the crunches, and
  2. not willing to discuss what is wrong the the modern approach to ID, and not interested in fixing it.
See Is ID properly pursued? and Message 39 among many others for additional comments. This was originally posted on my second day on the forum (when I was entranced by bright colors ...)
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by marc9000, posted 08-11-2012 10:06 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 376 of 382 (670385)
08-13-2012 7:03 PM


Summary too
Hi marc2000 and others,
I will use marc2000's summary as the basis for beginning mine:
PaulK writes:
Anyone who believes that there is a God is not an atheist, by definition.
Percy believes that there is a God.
Percy is not an atheist.
Deism is entirely consistent with unguided evolution, therefore Percy's rejection of creationism and intelligent design is consistent with his religious beliefs.
And it's entirely consistent with the political ambitions of atheists, that is, to destroy traditional religion in the U.S. ...
Traditionally the US has been composed of people from many religions, including Deism. There never has been a single "traditional religion" and there never has been any kind of program to dismantle the established religions.
And it's entirely consistent with ... (making) "unguided evolution" the basis for political decisions that much of the general public finds troubling. ...
For a Deist "unguided evolution" can be the mechanism for the development of intelligent species, have established the laws and mechanism through which evolution works.
Creationists are often labeled "anti-science" by ....
... everyone but Creationists, including Christians, due to their unreasonable fixation and adherence to falsehood after falsehood, and wanting to make other people believe their delusions (fixed beliefs held in spite of contradictory evidence).
The earth is OLD, get used to it.
... yet obviously the only science they oppose is the "progressive" kind - the experimentation that considers animals the same as humans, that worships the environment as if it's a god, that promotes abortion, ...
Nonsense rant
... that eliminates the belief that we were "endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights".
The Deist God mentioned in the Declaration of Independence in 1776.
Then came the war, and the Articles of Confederation in 1777.
The current form of government was established in 1787, with the signing of the constitution, and it has no such mention of god. What it does say is
quote:
WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The valid reason is this, the mystery of why Deists believe in a creator, then agree with the atheists that there was no creator. ...
Ah cognitive dissonance once again. Agreeing about evolution is not equivalent to believing there is no creator.
... I asked Percy to name one difference in beliefs of how the world works between a Deist and an atheist, and got no answer. ...
As another resident Deist I'll reply: the difference between a Deist and an Atheist is that one believes in god/s and the other one doesn't.
How this works is the world is that when it comes to spiritual questions they may have different answers, but when it involves non-spiritual questions then they can both rely on science, the scientific method and view objective empirical evidence with a skeptica open mind, often coming to the same conclusions. This is covered in further detail on Is ID properly pursued?.
An honest IDist would have no problem with any conclusion of science, because that is a means to separate fact from fiction.
Accepting science does not make you either an atheist or a proponent of atheism, it makes you rational.
... People with religions that always take a back seat to what atheists claim about science share much/most of the blame that causes creationists to declare them to be atheists. (THE END)
So when Dr. Roger C. Wiens in Radiometric Dating - A Christian Perspective says:
quote:
Arguments over the age of the Earth have sometimes been divisive for people who regard the Bible as God's word. Even though the Earth's age is never mentioned in the Bible, it is an issue because those who take a strictly literal view of the early chapters of Genesis can calculate an approximate date for the creation by adding up the life-spans of the people mentioned in the genealogies. Assuming a strictly literal interpretation of the week of creation, even if some of the generations were left out of the genealogies, the Earth would be less than ten thousand years old. Radiometric dating techniques indicate that the Earth is thousands of times older than that--approximately four and a half billion years old. Many Christians accept this and interpret the Genesis account in less scientifically literal ways. However, some Christians suggest that the geologic dating techniques are unreliable, that they are wrongly interpreted, or that they are confusing at best. Unfortunately, much of the literature available to Christians has been either inaccurate or difficult to understand, so that confusion over dating techniques continues.
This means he is an atheist?
In [tid=670285] I replied to marc9000 as follows:
marc9000 writes:
Anyone who is the slightest bit religious, anyone but the most militant of atheists, should show some interest, however slight, in Intelligent Design.
Since you believe deists are just atheists by another name, this deist/atheist is so interested in intelligent design that he dedicated an entire forum of his discussion board to it.
What that seems to have resulted in is an attractive looking place for atheists to shout down Intelligent Design, and give each other more and more ideas in how to further shout it down in places other than just these forums. If it was your attempt to genuinely search for new knowledge about Intelligent Design, and how it may fit with your religion, I don’t think it worked out very well for you. A quick glance through that forum showed me one of your messages on it, a complete dismissal of ID.
What I generally find is that ID proponents are
  1. not completely committed to ID, they want to have their religion kept as well, choosing their religion when it comes to the crunches, and
  2. not willing to discuss what is wrong the the modern approach to ID, and not interested in fixing it.
See Is ID properly pursued? and Message 39 among many others for additional comments. This was originally posted on my second day on the forum (when I was entranced by bright colors ...)
Is ID properly pursued? was posted 03-16-2004 and remains with few ID proponent comments. Based on this I would say that the ID proponents that come here are not interested in discussing this issue, and the failure of the current movement to address the shortcomings.
Obviously Percy is not an atheist nor a promoter of atheism, obviously there are many people from many religions that accept science and are not atheists.
A great debate with only you, or a general thread? PM me if you want a great debate - otherwise I'll propose a new thread in the coming days/weeks.
I predict it will end as badly for you as your previous threads.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : 2nd "

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024