Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,356 Year: 3,613/9,624 Month: 484/974 Week: 97/276 Day: 25/23 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   I Am Not An Atheist!
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 18 of 382 (497098)
02-01-2009 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
01-30-2009 10:02 AM


Percy writes:
I disagree with Creationists because they are wrong, deeply and fatally wrong. It has nothing to do with atheism.
--Percy
Human beings have all sorts of beliefs and the way in which they arrive at them varies from reasoned arguments and theories to blind faith. Some beliefs we feel we can justify and prove, some we feel simply as "gut feelings". Some of those we think we have proved beyond reasonable doubt, fall to pieces from time to time, it's all in the nature of our relationship with the mistery of the world.
Imagine I was a die-hard creationist and I said to you that God planted everywhere faked evidence of an old earth to test your faith in him. I am sure creationists can find a proper verse from the Bible supporting this assertion. How would you prove that they are "deeply and fatally wrong"?
PS. I am not a creationist, I am simply aiding their positions so that something similar to a "serious" debate can take place between evolution and religion. I believe it's an argument creationists could use against the "scientific method".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 01-30-2009 10:02 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2009 7:37 PM Agobot has not replied
 Message 21 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-01-2009 7:48 PM Agobot has replied
 Message 34 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 8:31 AM Agobot has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 31 of 382 (497160)
02-02-2009 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by DevilsAdvocate
02-01-2009 7:48 PM


DA writes:
Occam's Razor is an axiom which stipulates that when faced with several alternate explanations of a phenomena that the hypotheses that contain the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities (things that exist) is most likely the closest one to reality.
It's a bit of a stretch to think that a principle that holds at our level of existence for John, Michael and Lora, should be applicable to the Biblical God. If God created occam's razor, would his ways be subject to this rule as well?
DA writes:
Thus the idea that an all powerful, all knowing supernatural entity would go out of his way to fake the evidence countering his own existence to one particular species among millions of species on a small insignificant planet around a hum drum star among billions of stars in a galaxy among billions of galaxies in the universe, fails Occam's Razor hands down and thus is logically, philosophically and scientifically unsound...
...unless he wanted to test our faith in him by letting us denounce the Genesis in the Bible through out scientific research.
Not that i believe any of this, but i can't currently think of a way to counter such an argument if it were presented. And i have to say it sounds a billion times more logical than claiming the dinosaur fossils were 4 thousand years old . But i am not going to argue over this and will let creos pick up from here.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-01-2009 7:48 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-02-2009 5:21 AM Agobot has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 33 of 382 (497164)
02-02-2009 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by DevilsAdvocate
02-02-2009 5:21 AM


DA writes:
Occam's razor is a principle by which human beings use to judge the validity of alternate hypothesis of the existence of things/entities in the world around them. If we can detect the existence of John, Michael or Lora using direct or indirect observation than we do not even need to use Occam's razor to determine the possibility of their existence. It is mainly used in determining the validity of the existence of things/entities that we cannot observe or detect directly or indirectly no matter what they are, supernatural or not. So in the case of God, Occam's razor applies MORE than in the case of a human being such as John, Michael or Lora not less.
Everybody knows what occam's razor is, Devil's Advocate. This isn't really a board for mentally retarded, so you don't need to explain that 2+2 equals 4.
But you are most definitely wrong that a God must follow the path of least resistance. This is most definitely not how religions portray God. God in scripture is omni-powerful DA, you should focus your attention on that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-02-2009 5:21 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-02-2009 9:30 AM Agobot has not replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 45 of 382 (497203)
02-02-2009 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Percy
02-02-2009 8:31 AM


Percy writes:
The topic of this thread is why creationists insist on demonizing opponents by characterizing them as atheists when they are not.
I think you'll have an answer to this question when you can explain why the nonsense spurred by atheists gets a different treatment to nonsense brought forth by creatinists. Why is a certain kind of nonsense somehow more acceptable than another?
Maybe it will explain why you are sometimes treated as if you were an atheist.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 8:31 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 1:43 PM Agobot has replied
 Message 47 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 1:44 PM Agobot has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 53 of 382 (497220)
02-02-2009 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Huntard
02-02-2009 1:43 PM


Huntard writes:
Would you mind pointing out what "nonsense" atheists have spewed then? Or, perhaps, by "nonsense" you mean anything you don't agree with?
Yes i could but i'd have to open up a new thread, as this is very offtopic here. If i open up a new thread, i'd be suspended for attacking the multitude of assumptions being made in most every thread. This has been changing lately and people are starting to get more tolerant towards the idea of some type of creator, I think this is rather obvious to everyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 1:43 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 4:46 PM Agobot has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 54 of 382 (497222)
02-02-2009 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Percy
02-02-2009 1:44 PM


Percy writes:
So what you're saying is that the atheist label is not given for accepting evolution, but for putting forth nonsense. What has being illogical or irrational or just plain nonsensical to do with atheism? The label still seems wholly inappropriate.
No, not all atheists put forth nonsense, at least not that often and not all the time. It's the tolereance that they get when they do, that gives the impression that you are an atheist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 1:44 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 5:27 PM Agobot has not replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 56 of 382 (497226)
02-02-2009 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Huntard
02-02-2009 4:46 PM


Huntard writes:
If you'd like, I'll start a new thread on this, and then we can discuss it there. If your claim holds true, I don't think you'll have anything to fear. In fact I don't think you'll have anything to fear at all. Certainly not from me, if you convince me, I'll fight by your side, if you don't the worst that you'll get from me is me saying you make baseless assertions.
Great, go ahead it was your idea, not mine. If i don't get suspended it would mean that i failed in my endeavour.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 4:46 PM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 5:32 PM Agobot has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024