No need for grunt work? *Societal Roles*

Protectors of Earth.

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good, so there is no physical basis for human sex discrimination.

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That is the basis, is it not? When a man saw a woman could not carry as much, say in paleolithic times, this may have been sparked. Today, the discrimination is based solely on difference in a world where how much you can carry doesn't count.

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porteus@gmail.com

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Protectors of Earth.

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Oh, you were referring to the old Thor comics? With the ruler Odin of Asgard? Man those comics were cool. Nowadays good comics just don't exist. Art today has even become worse. (comics)

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porteus@gmail.com

Ah, I remember them from when I were a lad "Mjolnir to thy master !"... but actually I think he's referring to the TV show Stargate SG-1. The asgard are an ancient race who have become asexual clones (or something like that ) - but who still find time to safeguard the Earth from being conquered/destroyed by the evil Gua'ld.

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The Tigers roared in Dublin - and I was there.

Oh, thanks for the info. I can't spell Thor's hammer like you!

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porteus@gmail.com

In fact women have almost always done most of the heavy lifting - carrying a 4-year old for miles is heavy lifting. Also, carrying water.The breakdown between men and women is not based on physical strength, it is based on "inside" and "outside" roles, inasmuch as it is based on anything other than coercion.Undoubtedly, the raw total strength capacity of an abstract male is higher than that of an abstract female. There are some few cases in which this is a critical issue, but not many. And in any case, as Mick pointed out, why not then set achievement requirements? Ironically in the case of armies, thats more or less how it used to work in regard female combatants.

How do you think sexism started?
And more importantly why? Motives.I'm curious, in no way do I disagree with you really.

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porteus@gmail.com

In a hunting and gathering society, the the females often were the ones that gathered and took care of children while the males went out to hunt. This leaned toward female dominated societies because all the females were together while the males were seperated.By the way, it should be noted that when the males go out for hunting, it was often days at a time. They didn't have guns either. I have noticed in the past that some people have trouble grasping the concept of hunting for days or that there weren't any gun.After farming was developed, the need for long range hunting parties became less and less important. This allowed the males to stay put within the clan more. As males were physically stronger than females, it shifted toward a male dominated society.The truth is the most noticable parts of recorded history consist of wars. While there are many things that could drive a civilization to its knee, war is the only thing that could be prevented. Who's doing the fighting? The men. This is why they became regarded as more important than women.What I just stated above was a hypothesis developed by my friend and I a long time ago.

Well, I would go rather further than Troy and speculate that sexism is a) at base, simply acquisative behaviour, and b) rather more profoundly interventionist than just a chnage in perceptions.The rise in farming doesn't just bring men inside; it changes the nature of "outside" work. Outside work is mostly animal related; thus, mostly men took over herding domesticated animals, which otherwise is often a female role. The domestication of animals is in every practical sense a technology of 'brain-washing', or at least response conditioning. And it was this technology that men subseuqntly applied as a controlling force to women. And the motive for doing is to overcome the female "dominance" of these societies, and thus laying claim to the material benefits such a superordinate position offers, of course, control of women sexuality.And I think this is echoed in many early mythologies in which a male deity ritually supercedes a female deity; for example, the Aztech god Quetzalcoatl, IIRC, birthed himself by cutting his way out of his mothers womb. Thus, the female genitive power is subordinated to male genitive power in the ritual construction of tribal identity.

But patriarchy is much more than just a gendered division of labour, whether that division is based on physical differences or not. If in palaeolithic times men could carry more than women, then it might be sensible for... erm... men to carry more than women.But the important feature of patriarchy is the fact that women's work is considered dirty work, skill-less work, low-value work, embarassing or humiliating work, etc.i don't see how this cultural view of women's place is society would arise just from different physical abilities of women and men. Differing physical abilities might lead to a rational division of labour, but not to male control of female sexuality; men's control over the behaviour of children; and differing legal status for women and men.

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And I think this is echoed in many early mythologies in which a male deity ritually supercedes a female deity; for example, the Aztech god Quetzalcoatl, IIRC, birthed himself by cutting his way out of his mothers womb. Thus, the female genitive power is subordinated to male genitive power in the ritual construction of tribal identity.

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Ok.I agree although I don't really like the way you have described this belief. This is what a society once believed was true, and something that connected them spiritually. Analyzing it like that, is sort of a dishonor to another's religion. The title mythology is part of a thought that anything that we could see today as ludicris, is labeled with and put into books with fantastic pictures, leaving out the people that actually put life into their religion. I don't think that is right.

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porteus@gmail.com

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But patriarchy is much more than just a gendered division of labour, whether that division is based on physical differences or not. If in palaeolithic times men could carry more than women, then it might be sensible for... erm... men to carry more than women.

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So what are the differences that has established "patriarchy"? You are disagreeing, I am interested in what you think is or are the main differences in men and women that made life more difficult for women, or is it just the way things go naturally?

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porteus@gmail.com

Perhaps reading a bit about current matriarchal societies would be helpful?

Child bearing would be a biggie, since there was no modern medicine and lots of children were produced in those days.BTW Charlie, you are sure leeching the knowledge today, eh?

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"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives."-- Anne DillardEvery tool carries with it the spirit by which it had been created.
-- Werner Karl Heisenberg: (1901-1976) German physicistI read the newspaper avidly. It is my one form of continuous fiction.
-- Aneurin Bevan: (1897-1960) English politician

No, I mean, what cause what we call today "sexism". As in what are the differences that made women become oppressed in history. Child birth amazed paleolithic man, so much so, that women were worshipped. But I think that is still very much the case, turn on t.v. Thats how tv networks get people to stay on the channel these days.Oh and the knowledge leeching, yeah no 8 hour track meet today..

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porteus@gmail.com