Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9161 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,584 Year: 2,841/9,624 Month: 686/1,588 Week: 92/229 Day: 3/61 Hour: 3/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Where does the gravity go?
Funkaloyd
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 49 (189407)
03-01-2005 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by JonF
02-28-2005 10:13 AM


Mass, gravity and velocity
Sorry to backtrack...
JonF writes:
JustinC writes:
Does a moving body have more gravity than a body at rest? My logic is that its kinetic energy would increase, and hence its mass
Yes.
Can you go into more detail? My understanding was that as an object approaches the speed of light its resistance to force will increase but its active gravitational mass will not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by JonF, posted 02-28-2005 10:13 AM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by sidelined, posted 03-01-2005 8:27 AM Funkaloyd has not replied
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 03-03-2005 7:44 AM Funkaloyd has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5898 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 32 of 49 (189415)
03-01-2005 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Funkaloyd
03-01-2005 5:59 AM


Re: Mass, gravity and velocity
Funkaloyd
The active gravitaional mass of a body remains the same,that is, the force of acceleration it produces upon a body remains constant. The inertial mass increases as the speed increases since mass and energy are equivalent The more energy used to accelerate a mass{the two being the same} the greater the measure of the resistence to being further accelerated and at light speed the mass becomes infinite which requires infinite energy to further accerate it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Funkaloyd, posted 03-01-2005 5:59 AM Funkaloyd has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 49 (189745)
03-03-2005 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Funkaloyd
03-01-2005 5:59 AM


Re: Mass, gravity and velocity
So how is New Zealand? Do you go to school? Do you watch the stars?
Welcome to EvC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Funkaloyd, posted 03-01-2005 5:59 AM Funkaloyd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Funkaloyd, posted 03-04-2005 2:51 AM Phat has not replied

  
Funkaloyd
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 49 (189960)
03-04-2005 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
03-03-2005 7:44 AM


Re: Mass, gravity and velocity
...Thanks. Hi Phatboy, everyone.
I made the mistake of leaving school early (am now waiting to get into a uni course), and I "observe" the stars frequently.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 03-03-2005 7:44 AM Phat has not replied

  
chark
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 49 (206473)
05-09-2005 12:13 PM


back to energy and gravity
I am going to head back to the speculation that energy has gravity. I believe it does but we can not effectively measure it since one atom contains in the upper billions of joules of energy and since we can not contain large enough amounts of energy to equal the corresponding amount of matter (according to E=mc2)in a large enough quanity to measure its gravity, I don't know of any current way to measure "the gravity of energy" outside of knowing the exact amounts of matter and energy in our sun. But if energy does emit gravity then that could help answer questions about dark matter. Dark matter is the made up factor in wide scale physics. I am saying that dark matter is actually light matter. That is all of the light, heat, and radiation energy in the universe (or gravitational vicinity) that is throwing off calculations.

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by 1.61803, posted 05-09-2005 12:34 PM chark has not replied
 Message 37 by coffee_addict, posted 05-09-2005 12:36 PM chark has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 36 of 49 (206477)
05-09-2005 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by chark
05-09-2005 12:13 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
Does gravity have gravity?
Where in the Universe is the Universe?
What is energy?
Inquiring minds want to know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by chark, posted 05-09-2005 12:13 PM chark has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 37 of 49 (206478)
05-09-2005 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by chark
05-09-2005 12:13 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
chark writes:
That is all of the light, heat, and radiation energy in the universe (or gravitational vicinity) that is throwing off calculations.
The problem with this is that there aren't enough light around to account for the missing mass. As was pointed out earlier, fusion in a star convert very little mass into a lot of energy, relatively.
I believe it does but we can not effectively measure it since one atom contains in the upper billions of joules of energy and since we can not contain large enough amounts of energy to equal the corresponding amount of matter (according to E=mc2)in a large enough quanity to measure its gravity
If we invent a measuring instrument so sensitive that we can measure the affect a very massive object has on light, we can effectively measure how much gravity light has.
This is because F = Gm1m2/r^2
Normally, we only put the mass of the object into account. However, if we have a instrument sensitive enough, we can also put light into account.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by chark, posted 05-09-2005 12:13 PM chark has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by chark, posted 05-09-2005 9:44 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
chark
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 49 (206615)
05-09-2005 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by coffee_addict
05-09-2005 12:36 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
hmm...I see but how far off are the calculations that would require the existence of dark matter. Wouldn't all of the radiation traveling through the vacum of space and all of the energy from the stars and planets emit enough gravity to throw it off?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by coffee_addict, posted 05-09-2005 12:36 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by coffee_addict, posted 05-09-2005 9:51 PM chark has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 39 of 49 (206616)
05-09-2005 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by chark
05-09-2005 9:44 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
Current estimates reveal that about 25-30% of the universe is made of the visible matter, about 30-35% is made of dark matter, and about 60-65%ish is made of dark energy.
Some people may disagree whether it is 30 or 30.5 or whatever, but as you can see visible matter only make up a tiny portion of our universe.
Astronomers in the early 20th century estimated that invisible stuff they called dark matter occupied up to 90% of our galaxy. If you want, I can give a more detailed explanation to how astronomers came up with these calculations.
This message has been edited by Troy, 05-09-2005 09:58 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by chark, posted 05-09-2005 9:44 PM chark has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by chark, posted 05-10-2005 11:21 AM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 41 by Wounded King, posted 05-10-2005 11:24 AM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 43 by Sylas, posted 05-10-2005 9:07 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
chark
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 49 (206752)
05-10-2005 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by coffee_addict
05-09-2005 9:51 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
Please do tell.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by coffee_addict, posted 05-09-2005 9:51 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 41 of 49 (206754)
05-10-2005 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by coffee_addict
05-09-2005 9:51 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
Doesn't that give us at least 115% of a universe? Or is there some overlap?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by coffee_addict, posted 05-09-2005 9:51 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by coffee_addict, posted 05-10-2005 7:00 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 42 of 49 (206841)
05-10-2005 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Wounded King
05-10-2005 11:24 AM


Re: back to energy and gravity
Everything is a rough estimate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Wounded King, posted 05-10-2005 11:24 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5250 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 43 of 49 (206868)
05-10-2005 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by coffee_addict
05-09-2005 9:51 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
"Troy" writes:
Current estimates reveal that about 25-30% of the universe is made of the visible matter, about 30-35% is made of dark matter, and about 60-65%ish is made of dark energy.
Actually, current estimates for the energy budget are 4% baryonic matter, 23% non-baryonic matter, 73% dark energy, and negligible fractions radiation.
You have to be careful reading the percentages, since you can give percentages in relations to different things. The fractions above are proportions of the energy budget for a flat universe. You will also see quoted fractions of the total matter making up the universe.
Baryonic matter means matter like we know and love.
Of the Baryonic matter, some is luminous, and some is dark. It seems to be roughly about 10% of baryonic matter is actually visible.
The term "dark matter" can refer to both non-luminous ordinary matter, and exotic non-baryonic matter.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by coffee_addict, posted 05-09-2005 9:51 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by coffee_addict, posted 05-10-2005 10:24 PM Sylas has replied
 Message 45 by nipok, posted 05-10-2005 10:41 PM Sylas has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 44 of 49 (206886)
05-10-2005 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Sylas
05-10-2005 9:07 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
You're probably right. It's been a while since I checked the info.
Are machos considered baryonic or non-baryonic matter?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Sylas, posted 05-10-2005 9:07 PM Sylas has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Sylas, posted 05-11-2005 4:47 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
nipok
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 49 (206889)
05-10-2005 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Sylas
05-10-2005 9:07 PM


Re: back to energy and gravity
Humor me for a second. Lets suppose that there are particles of matter that we do not yet have the scientific precision to measure or see. Lets suppose the that the subatomic particles that we currently think are the building blocks of all matter are actually in fact made of up of smaller particles that are in turn made up of smaller particles.
If this is possible then there exists the possibility that these particles through the same natural laws that bind everything else in the universe could at times bond or attract to similar ones creating larger particles and appear seemingly out of nowhere for an instant. If this was true then we might see the effects of these briefly living imaginary particles but what we would have a more difficult time seeing would be the abundance of these tiny sub-quark and sub-lepton particles that would exist everywhere. And I mean tiny on the scale of a lepton to a proton and many times smaller.
Energy in flux, and where ever possible bonding back into the building blocks of atomic building blocks. The total sum of these unseen supersubatomics could account for the missing variables in dark matter equations.
I also strongly belief that the day will come where the 4 accepted forces will be unified through an Aetheric Density Quotient. It is this Aetheric Density that will prove to be the missing link in attempts to come up with a single equation that will demonstrate that gravity, weak, and strong forces are all in fact different forms of electromagnetism.
Electromagnetism is the general principle that the other three forces will be shown to be derived from based on Aetheric Density. This to me seems so evident just by examining where we place our satellites above our planet in regards to our own atmosphere. By comparing how gravity equates in the forces needed by a satellite trying to maintain an orbit below 100km verses how it compares for satellites farther outside the upper boundaries of our atmosphere it becomes evident that gravity is directly related to the density of the energy mass that the gravitational waves travel on. Einstein worked for a long time trying to understand Aether and it was in those attempts that he found how time and space can appear to curve through the Aether. Had he lived another 50 years he probably would have found the Aether. Now it is up to us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Sylas, posted 05-10-2005 9:07 PM Sylas has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024