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Author Topic:   Where Did Big Bang Energy Come From?
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 18 of 84 (183278)
02-05-2005 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by daaaaaBEAR
02-05-2005 2:27 AM


Re: Where DID it come from?
daaaaaBEAR
it came from nowhere. it doesn't matter where the energy came from just that it was there to support evo theories and actually all of evolution itself.
We cannot say where energy came from for this simple reason.We have no idea what energy is.All we are able to deduce is that this energy is a number which is conserved in any interaction we observe.We know that mass and energy are equivalent as a change in one brings about achange in the other.
Since we have not yet understood what energy is per se we cannot begin to do anything but take the physics of mass energy{and all that this entails} to find out what we can say about the origin of the universe.Theory shows that our models can be taken back to a brief moment after origin {10^-43 sec after} before which time the laws of physics are unknown.This is because it violates a law in physics that requires the product of position and momentum of particles as well as theie product of energy and time to be known
greater thn a certain limit.This limit is an inherent part of the wave nature of matter in the universe.
It seems like those supporting the Big Bang just answer the how and why questions but seem to avoid the source of their how and why theories.
We do not know the source of how and why. Science can only determine the rules of the game.We cannot avoid that which we cannot answer,however, we can put limits on what that answer must entail to produce what we observe,and magic is ruled out so far.
This message has been edited by sidelined, 02-05-2005 13:03 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-05-2005 2:27 AM daaaaaBEAR has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 36 of 84 (188416)
02-25-2005 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by daaaaaBEAR
02-24-2005 10:22 PM


Re: Matter creation from nothing...
daaaaaBear
Well I think the key may be to establish what constitutes nothing.It may well be that nothingness as far as our universe is concerned does not require that the condoition of utter emptiness be established.There us a limit imposed on our universe that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle shows to be a consequence of the wave nature of our world.
The position/momentum of particles as well as the energy/time relation is found to adhere to a formula describing it.
{delta x}{delta p}>h-bar/2
{delta E]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-24-2005 10:22 PM daaaaaBEAR has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 37 of 84 (188417)
02-25-2005 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by daaaaaBEAR
02-24-2005 10:22 PM


Re: Matter creation from nothing...
daaaaaBear
Well I think the key may be to establish what constitutes nothing.It may well be that nothingness as far as our universe is concerned does not require that the condoition of utter emptiness be established.There us a limit imposed on our universe that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle shows to be a consequence of the wave nature of our world.
The position/momentum of particles as well as the energy/time relation is found to adhere to a formula describing it.
{delta x}{delta p}>h-bar/2
{delta E]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-24-2005 10:22 PM daaaaaBEAR has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 38 of 84 (188418)
02-25-2005 8:00 AM


What gives here? I posted a rely and only part of my message appeared.I edit to correct and the same thing happened.

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 41 of 84 (190323)
03-06-2005 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by les benton
03-04-2005 1:18 PM


les benton
In the beginning,what we call, space was absolute-zero.
What is meant by absolute zero and how do you arrive at this assumption?
This caused an opposite reaction of absolute-all
Why do you think that Newtons third law of motion applies here?
This message has been edited by sidelined, 06 March 2005 15:14 AM

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 53 of 84 (211404)
05-26-2005 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Vash
05-26-2005 1:08 AM


Re: Time before the bang?
Vash
Phil try and make sense. And that is exactly my point, there was nothing, no time, no matter, no energy, no PHYSICAL LAWS.
Actually Vash ,we do not know if there were physical laws or not.We can only make inferences about what should be happening at the beginning based on laws that allow us to derive a physical universe consistent with what we observe.In particle accelerators we areable to observe the actions of matter under the extremes of temperature and relativistic velocities.Our models of quantum mechanics allows us to say what is happening up to a certain point after the origin but not precisely at the beginning because of the nature of matter.That nature is quantum which is to say it comes in discrete packages which are of a finite size.
From the Hyperphysics website
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html
Quantum properties dominate the fields of atomic and molecular physics. Radiation is quantized such that for a given frequency of radiation, there can be only one value of quantum energy for the photons of that radiation. The energy levels of atoms and molecules can have only certain quantized values. Transitions between these quantized states occur by the photon processes absorption, emission, and stimulated emission.
The physical laws as we know them allow us only to determine what occurs to matter as a result of temperatures present at that moment.
We can say what occurs at the moment 10^-43 sec after origin.The models we have do not allow us to speculate with any confidence beyond this.That is unfortunate but it is a product of the wave nature of matter and,at present,is the best we can do.
10^-43 second is a vanishingly small amount of time.There are also laws built into the universe that may prevent there being a time before this as a consequence of the structure of space-time.The uncertainty principle forbids there being a reltionship between energy and time smaller than a certain amount and is given by the formula dE x dt = h/2pi where d is means change in value and h is Planck's constant.There is also a relationship between momentum {p} and position {x} which follows the same formula and is written thus dp x dx = h/2pi/
If we postulate that the universe had an origin at T=O then the energy scales to infinity and the monentum and position fall to 0 which viiolates the uncertainty principle.We are then faced with the question of how can the uncertainty principle be violated prior to this or failing that how does the uncertainty principle arise from a universe hat did not have it to begin with?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Vash, posted 05-26-2005 1:08 AM Vash has not replied

  
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