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Author Topic:   what is the big bang and how do i understand it?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3633 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 121 of 122 (252502)
10-17-2005 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by RAZD
10-14-2005 5:05 PM


Re: Taking a new tack
he noted there were papers for and against and then appealed to authority to decide which were more valid.
This is a few days old now I know, but it's still bugging me... Where exactly did I appeal to authority? Having read a few of the papers on both sides, I am more convinced of the "no-effect" camp, but am more than willing to be proven wrong. My principle reason for doubting is precisely what I said... no effect has been observed on real gravity experiements that measure to a far greater precision. Any effect around Pioneer 10 or 11 should be observable elsewhere in the Solar System...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2005 5:05 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by RAZD, posted 10-17-2005 9:15 PM cavediver has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 122 of 122 (252522)
10-17-2005 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by cavediver
10-17-2005 7:46 PM


Re: Taking a new tack
It's not a biggie
msg 115 writes:
For every one of the very few papers pushing it as real, there is another saying that it is not real. Given the accuracy of GR we have seen in other observations (way below the level of this effect), it seems very unlikely to be real.
You appear to make your choice based on {the authority position} after saying there are pros and cons in the papers.
but I also said:
msg 116 writes:
Seems to me you are making a logical fallacy here (appeal to authority) ... And then take it back.
Any effect around Pioneer 10 or 11 should be observable elsewhere in the Solar System...
Ah that is the catch isn't it? The point about the Pioneers is that we have very very very precise information on just exactly what it is, and how it operates, while the information on other objects is based on observations based on our understanding of the way gravity works ... which would tend to build any anomalies into the models of the objects rather than expose them.
AND the same effect is discussed for other satellites that have gotten far enough away for the anomaly to show up, and with similar findings. To me this says: build a probe to settle this question - one designed specifically to remove all the concerns that have been invoked in the data. We'd probably find out more from this than going back to the moon.
I also look forward to seeing what the new gravity probes around earth find (just out of curiosity).

we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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