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Author Topic:   bulletproof alternate universe
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 256 of 308 (97360)
04-02-2004 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by simple
04-02-2004 8:54 PM


expecting ...
PS If you do reply please try to be clear you are not playing games, if you expect any real answer from me.
I am stil waiting patiently for an answer to all three of my little concerns that create sever problems for your version of the concept.
I also look for a response on the Hindu Model, which does not have the problems I have outlined with your version.
enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:54 PM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 257 of 308 (97368)
04-02-2004 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by RAZD
04-02-2004 9:52 PM


lights on
quote:
affected by that stretching to be very significantly different from 'normal' light
I think the idea was that the light that was there to start with was not what we would call normal. What we see now is the affected bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 9:52 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2004 12:23 AM simple has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 258 of 308 (97369)
04-02-2004 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by RAZD
04-02-2004 9:55 PM


Re: process God set up
quote:
any word on the biblical justification on the 12 days?
That was just a number we used but I could come up with some. 12 months, 12 deciples, etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 9:55 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2004 12:17 AM simple has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 308 (97373)
04-02-2004 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by RAZD
04-02-2004 4:52 PM


Re: light
[quote]light would be shifted out of the visible range ... physical light we have now. What about the spirit plane light? Would that obey our light spectrum ways? Since it is not here now, that might be hard to say. Some christian science folks have questioned the distant redshift interpretation. What if everything got shifted from the previous mix, so it ended up the way it is? Since we don't know much ag=bout either the other light, or the process of seperation, how could we say???! What we could say was the time would be very different.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 4:52 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 11:56 PM simple has not replied
 Message 265 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 11:58 PM simple has replied
 Message 266 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 11:59 PM simple has not replied
 Message 267 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2004 12:04 AM simple has not replied
 Message 268 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2004 12:07 AM simple has not replied
 Message 269 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2004 12:09 AM simple has not replied
 Message 270 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2004 12:12 AM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 260 of 308 (97377)
04-02-2004 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by simple
04-02-2004 8:54 PM


benefits of doubt
I try to give you the benefit of the doubt, as you seem to know a lot about cosmology.
no more than a standard education should give one interested in learning about "life, the universe, and everything" to quote D. Adams
unencumbered.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:54 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 261 of 308 (97378)
04-02-2004 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by simple
04-02-2004 8:54 PM


seriously
But at the same time the general flavor of your posts strikes me as sarcastic, and a sort of junior high type of fogginess, and tounge in cheek -would be cleverness, written more for a giggling friend than who it is posted for.
How could you get that impression when I keep asking you questions about serious problems with your concepts and you are the one avoiding the anwers with hand waving and epicycles of flavours on top of processes undefined. the fogginess is all in your bank, and it's your turn to show some cash.
Or try contesting the Hindu Model ...
no problems with that one has been presented yet.
enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:54 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 262 of 308 (97380)
04-02-2004 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by simple
04-02-2004 8:54 PM


still those nagging problems won't go away ...
By the way I'm closing the thread very soon, from my point anyhow
What, leave without answering the problems that have shot holes in the concept from the start and are still unresolved?
Allow me to recap (again) where we stand on your concept ("AC"), while also making reference to the superior Hindu Model ("HM") and how it solves the problems -- there are testable differences in what they predict:
  1. age of the universe
    • "AC" predicts age of 6200 years
    • "HM" predicts 100 billion year old universe
    • Observation: minimum age of the universe is 13.7 billion years
    • Conclusion: contradicts "AC" and allows "HM"
  2. light behavior
    • "AC" predicts light from less than 6200 lt-yr away or less will be 'normal' brightness and anything further away will be extremely dim to the point of being unvisible OR
    • "AC" predicts light from furthest depths of the universe will be 'normal' brightness and light from less than 6200 lt-yr away will be blinding bright
    • "HM" predicts light uniformly visible based on depths of the universe
    • Observation: light uniformly visible from the depths of the universe
    • Conclusion: contradicts "AC" and confirms "HM"
  3. age of the earth
    • "AC" predicts age of 6200 years
    • "HM" predicts much greater age, the earth being a cyclic event in a 100 billion year old universe
    • Observation: minimum age of the earth is 4.55 billion years
    • Conclusion: contradicts "AC" and confirms "HM"
Thus the Hindu model is much superior, no (12 day now but still undefined) "process" needed, no flavour of light needed, no problems with observed data ... must be correct version.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:54 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 263 of 308 (97382)
04-02-2004 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by simple
04-02-2004 8:54 PM


black knight black night
so if anyone can really shoot the concept down, fine. If not, thanks for the imput.
Your concept is the black night of the holy grail monty python movie
and again for reference testable differences in versions:
  1. age of the universe
    • "AC" predicts age of 6200 years
    • "HM" predicts 100 billion year old universe
    • Observation: minimum age of the universe is 13.7 billion years
    • Conclusion: contradicts "AC" and allows "HM"
  2. light behavior
    • "AC" predicts light from less than 6200 lt-yr away or less will be 'normal' brightness and anything further away will be extremely dim to the point of being unvisible OR
    • "AC" predicts light from furthest depths of the universe will be 'normal' brightness and light from less than 6200 lt-yr away will be blinding bright
    • "HM" predicts light uniformly visible based on depths of the universe
    • Observation: light uniformly visible from the depths of the universe
    • Conclusion: contradicts "AC" and confirms "HM"
  3. age of the earth
    • "AC" predicts age of 6200 years
    • "HM" predicts much greater age, the earth being a cyclic event in a 100 billion year old universe
    • Observation: minimum age of the earth is 4.55 billion years
    • Conclusion: contradicts "AC" and confirms "HM"
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 8:54 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 264 of 308 (97384)
04-02-2004 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by simple
04-02-2004 10:21 PM


spirit light lite
physical light we have now. What about the spirit plane light?
If there is no detectable difference it must obey the same rules as all other light, including the same problems with the age horizon process flavour modulation.
If there is a detectable difference then what is it?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 10:21 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 265 of 308 (97385)
04-02-2004 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by simple
04-02-2004 10:21 PM


spectral light
Would that obey our light spectrum ways?
One would expect it to if it was light. again -- is there a detectable difference or no difference?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 10:21 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by simple, posted 04-03-2004 12:27 AM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 266 of 308 (97386)
04-02-2004 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by simple
04-02-2004 10:21 PM


no show light
Since it is not here now, that might be hard to say.
well why bring it up then?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 10:21 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 267 of 308 (97387)
04-03-2004 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by simple
04-02-2004 10:21 PM


red light
Some christian science folks have questioned the distant redshift interpretation.
correction: some christian folks have questioned ... OR some scientists have questioned ...
if the questioning is based on a presupposition of faith it is not scientific
if the questioning is based on science the faith is irrelevant (it could be Hindu ...)
and we haven't yet discussed what the horizon process would do with red shift levels ... got any ideas?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 10:21 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 268 of 308 (97388)
04-03-2004 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by simple
04-02-2004 10:21 PM


Re: light
What if everything got shifted from the previous mix, so it ended up the way it is?
previous mix? is this another wrinkle in the epicycle game? do you mean before the separation when the speed of light was instantaneous? instantaneous light cannot red shift, mathematically impossible.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 10:21 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 269 of 308 (97389)
04-03-2004 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by simple
04-02-2004 10:21 PM


other light
Since we don't know much ag=bout either the other light, or the process of seperation, how could we say???
Hardly a basis for science if you don't even have observations to base your concepts on. Looks like you need to do some work.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 10:21 PM simple has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 270 of 308 (97390)
04-03-2004 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by simple
04-02-2004 10:21 PM


Re: light
What we could say was the time would be very different.
logic failure ... logic failure ...
undistributed conclusion
we could as easily say that time is green, for it is not based on any part of any preceeding argument. I suggest a remedial course in basic logic (assuming you have had a course in logic ... )
enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by simple, posted 04-02-2004 10:21 PM simple has not replied

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