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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9649
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 556 of 593 (797816)
01-27-2017 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by RAZD
01-26-2017 9:26 AM


Re: A game ... The Star Distance Two-step
You are talking about the baseline for parallax measurements from two extremes of earth's orbit perpendicular to the object being measured.

I was about to apologize for misunderstanding, and then I read the clarifying post. He really was talking about the two extremes of the earth's orbit. By the way, there is no need for that baseline to be perpendicular. Generally speaking that is not the case.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by RAZD, posted 01-26-2017 9:26 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18652
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 557 of 593 (797823)
01-27-2017 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by NoNukes
01-27-2017 1:19 PM


Re: A game ... The Star Distance Two-step
I was about to apologize for misunderstanding, and then I read the clarifying post. He really was talking about the two extremes of the earth's orbit. ...

Yes I saw that, but he was still talking about SN1987A, and the calculation on that does NOT involve the earth orbit baseline.

See Message 489 where he is definitely talking about the SN1987A calculation in my Message 486 ... and then begins blathering about " the absurd sine rule issue, it does not apply to parallax. ... "

Seems he is very confused, mixing these two different measurements up.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 560 by time, posted 01-28-2017 1:03 AM RAZD has responded

  
Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1069
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005


Message 558 of 593 (797825)
01-27-2017 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 551 by vimesey
01-27-2017 1:47 AM


Re: Quick question for Son Goku
Yes, essentially, all of that is correct.

Under Special Relativity their are only four possible velocities in spacetime:
(Average velocity means average over all four directions)
("bias" means it requires effort to have velocity in the other dimension)

(a) Average velocity of 1, with a bias toward time (normal matter)
(b) Average velocity of 1, with a bias toward space ("faster-than-light" matter, i.e. tachyons)
(c) Average velocity of 0, equal spread among time and space (light and other massless particles)
(d) Average velocity of 0, all velocities actually zero (these were never given a name)

Special Relativity allows all of these, but when you add in quantum mechanics (b) and (d) are impossible for quantum particles (but not for classical particles).

This leaves only (a) and (c) as possibilities. It's one of the strongest reasons we doubt FTL travel, there are literally no possible particles with this property and you can't be made of non-existent stuff.

Note, although Relativity says everybody experiences time differently, i.e. the time/space splitting of spacetime is different for different observers, everybody always agrees on the class a given particle belongs to, i.e. a photon is equally split between time and space for all observers.

from its perspective

These leads on to the second point, the perspective of particles in classes (a) and (c).

Basically it turns out (c) don't have a perspective, although they do move forward in time (equal split of velocities), they don't experience any, i.e. their own state cannot change.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Going a little further, just out of interest, QM also says (a) and (c) can't have any properties except their velocity class, their mass (must be zero for class (c)), their spin (which must be in multiples of 1/2) and any charges they have. Where charges are the properties that determine how strongly you interact with a force* (e.g. electric charge). Also for all forces, except the Electromagnetic force, that charge must be a specific value.

*Also all forces must be carried by particles in class (c).

Edited by Son Goku, : More accurate


This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by vimesey, posted 01-27-2017 1:47 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 559 by vimesey, posted 01-27-2017 5:04 PM Son Goku has acknowledged this reply

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 868
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 559 of 593 (797828)
01-27-2017 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by Son Goku
01-27-2017 3:16 PM


Re: Quick question for Son Goku
I have some reading to do ! :-)

(Which from me, means thank you mate) :-)


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 560 of 593 (797834)
01-28-2017 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 557 by RAZD
01-27-2017 2:58 PM


Re: A game ... The Star Distance Two-step
In other words we cannot use the base line from earth and area, because that has time imbedded in it. To use it assumes the other lines have equal time.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2017 2:58 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 561 of 593 (797835)
01-28-2017 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 542 by RAZD
01-26-2017 10:21 AM


Re: Great Debate issues
Ah, so you really are scared about debating the issues in this forum?

Understandable, but it won't change the facts.

If I take the time for a demolition derby, I do not want biased mods around.

If you do, please be sure to properly cite and reference it with a proper live link to the thread here, and please ensure that it is one that I am able to post on freely.
Of course.

Note that I will then copy your replies to a new thread here and shred your arguments here. You will of course have the opportunity to reply, but you won't have the privilege of being the only one that you would have on the The Great Debate forum. If you want I can start a new thread in that forum to post your comments and my replies so that you do have that privilege.

Ha you like to make little rules eh? Good luck with that.


This could be an interesting experiment in cross forum debate, and it could introduce many more people to my arguments. Might even bring some new people here.
Flatter yourself all you like. I find your arguments second rate. Passe.

ps -- I have set up the new thread at The Age of the Earth Great Debate, RAZD and time (only) in Proposed New Topics but it needs to be promoted to The Great Debate before you can comment. Just tell Percy that you want to participate and he can promote it.
Ha. I see you really think you have a chance. Kind of a little sad. But I guess you need to learn.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by RAZD, posted 01-26-2017 10:21 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 562 of 593 (797836)
01-28-2017 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 543 by dwise1
01-26-2017 10:22 AM


Re: Does time pass in other star systems.
My claim is that you cannot prove time exists in the far universe. You may drift off into delusion if you like. But it is what it is, and you ain't got the goods.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 563 of 593 (797837)
01-28-2017 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 546 by Admin
01-26-2017 11:25 AM


Re: Dwise1 and NewCatsEye Suspended 24 Hours
You are on trail here not me. You all show that you cannot evidence your claims about time existing in the far universe.

I accept time here on earth. I live it. I experience it. I accept time from the space station, we know there is time involved and how much in communications and such. I accept time in the solar system because we know how long it tales for light or communication to get around here. I do not accept it anywhere else until we get evidence. We see light from stars but not time.

There is no way to cross check what time in inherent in light from stars that arrives here. There are ways to check info from probes generally.

Edited by time, : No reason given.


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 Message 546 by Admin, posted 01-26-2017 11:25 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 564 of 593 (797838)
01-28-2017 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 548 by Stile
01-26-2017 12:10 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
An apple fell on Newton's head. Time never fell on his head. Certainly not time in the distant universe. Try to stop patting your science on the back long enough to admit you do not know here.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Stile, posted 01-26-2017 12:10 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 565 of 593 (797839)
01-28-2017 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 549 by RAZD
01-26-2017 12:46 PM


Re: Quick word to the wise
Yes time here can be measured. Notice it is here.

There IS no distance regardless of time! Time is essential is all distance. At least here in our spacetime where there is time. Is this really all that hard to get?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by RAZD, posted 01-26-2017 12:46 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 566 of 593 (797840)
01-28-2017 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 547 by RAZD
01-26-2017 12:09 PM


Re: Does time pass in other star systems.
That was a long post. Let me at least address the issue of where time is in parallax. The mods are already threatening me here with suspensions. You think anyone could debate here in any honest way??!! Ha.

Anyhow time is part of spacetime. You with me so far? If then time is part of space...spacetime...the when we take a slice of space for a base line, that has to include time.


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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 567 of 593 (797841)
01-28-2017 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 550 by thingamabob
01-26-2017 2:05 PM


Re: Quick word to the wise
Could you explain how we experience time?
I can't see time. I can't feel time. I can't smell time. I can't hear time.
You get old. You take a train ride and it takes time. Everything takes time.

I do experience existence as I exist. I know there is duration as continual events take place in my existence.
That'll do er I guess.

Actually there is duration between events in existence that mankind
measures by something we have designated as time.

Even if we did not measure it, time goes by. The squirrel in your yard will die. The skunks will grow bigger....


But mankind did invent how to measure the duration in existence between events they observed.
Ok, fine, give man a little pat on the back. He made rolex watches and stuff.

How do you measure time?
What is time that you can measure it?
How do you measure radioactive decay?
You see how long they take.

The only things we can measure are length, width, height/depth and duration between events in existence.
So you cannot measure time in the distant universe?


So yes man designed a system to measure duration between events in existence.
Those who believe in God attribute that to Him first.

Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by thingamabob, posted 01-26-2017 2:05 PM thingamabob has responded

Replies to this message:
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Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 111
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 568 of 593 (797842)
01-28-2017 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 562 by time
01-28-2017 1:13 AM


Re: Does time pass in other star systems.
Your claim is nonsense. We can see movement and supernova in the far universe. How do you suppose that things move and stars explode without having any time in which to move/explode?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by time, posted 01-28-2017 1:13 AM time has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 570 by time, posted 01-28-2017 1:54 AM Riggamortis has responded

  
time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 569 of 593 (797843)
01-28-2017 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 554 by Dr Adequate
01-27-2017 10:13 AM


The 'planets happen to be almost the exact size of these....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLyBG4mqZ3s


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Replies to this message:
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time
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 89
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 570 of 593 (797844)
01-28-2017 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 568 by Riggamortis
01-28-2017 1:48 AM


Re: Does time pass in other star systems.
Well, let's start out by asking if movement in all cases requires the same time?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 568 by Riggamortis, posted 01-28-2017 1:48 AM Riggamortis has responded

Replies to this message:
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