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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 601 of 655 (823106)
11-06-2017 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 600 by starman
11-06-2017 1:44 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
One example of a base line for parallax measurement is the distance earth moves in six months. That is a huge distance. It involves a big piece of spacetime. If you admit time exists here, then time exists with the space. Not sure what you are missing here.

Curiously paralax is not used, so you bringing this up only demonstrates a lack of understanding.

Go ahead and play your little game about knowing distance from ring to star though. Ha.

The speed of anything around the SN is not known unless the distance to the SN is known. To get that distance you cannot assume that a slice of time and space in the solar system is equal to a slice of time and space where the stars are!

As the checker game demonstrates "speed of anything around the SN is ..." irrelevant.

It appears that you failed to comprehend this simple fact that is self-evident to children. Using the di for distance moved in a turn represents different speeds.

FAIL #7 now I do believe.

You just keep racking them up.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:44 AM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 602 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 12:54 PM RAZD has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 602 of 655 (823130)
11-06-2017 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 601 by RAZD
11-06-2017 7:30 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
You can't use anything for distance. Gong! To do so assumes time exists and space equally all the way. Your game fails.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 601 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 7:30 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 603 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 2:22 PM starman has responded
 Message 604 by Taq, posted 11-06-2017 3:10 PM starman has responded
 Message 606 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 7:06 AM starman has responded
 Message 608 by Stile, posted 11-07-2017 10:37 AM starman has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 603 of 655 (823148)
11-06-2017 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 602 by starman
11-06-2017 12:54 PM


Starman's total absence of argument via empty assertions
You can't use anything for distance. Gong! To do so assumes time exists and space equally all the way. Your game fails.

And we have another desperate assertion of denial without any supporting evidence. Fail #13.

The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 12:54 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 610 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 3:53 PM RAZD has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 604 of 655 (823149)
11-06-2017 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 602 by starman
11-06-2017 12:54 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
starman writes:

You can't use anything for distance. Gong! To do so assumes time exists and space equally all the way. Your game fails.

Then how in the world are you able to cross the street and avoid traffic?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 12:54 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 3:38 PM Taq has not yet responded
 Message 609 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 3:51 PM Taq has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 605 of 655 (823157)
11-06-2017 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by Taq
11-06-2017 3:10 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
Then how in the world are you able to cross the street and avoid traffic?

Next he's going to say that the SN1987A star does not exist ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by Taq, posted 11-06-2017 3:10 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 611 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 3:54 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 606 of 655 (823185)
11-07-2017 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 602 by starman
11-06-2017 12:54 PM


Another starman failure
You can't use anything for distance. Gong! To do so assumes time exists and space equally all the way. ...

Just in case you missed it we can consider the di throws to be arbitrary variations in distance rather than time. The end result is the same -- that we KNOW the distance from the star to the ring and we KNOW the angle between the star and the ring.

We can even assume that both time and distance vary and the result is the same.

... Your game fails.

Says the person who's only arguments are denial and repeated assertions of falsified claims.

FAIL #13

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 12:54 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 612 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 3:55 PM RAZD has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3036
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 607 of 655 (823188)
11-07-2017 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 594 by starman
11-05-2017 2:25 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
starman writes:

To know distances in the universe you need to have time exist there as it does here. Can you demonstrate that it does exist there and exist the same as here?

I don't need any of this.

I'm not trying to know distances in the universe exactly.
I'm only trying to know distances in the universe good enough.

And, for the purposes of knowing that those distances are millions/trillions of miles, time works "close enough" there as it does here for such calculations.

If those calculations were wrong, we would never be able to put satellites into orbit, or track other spacecraft/comets/asteroids as deeply into space as we have.

Since those calculations are correct for the things we can definitively know, it is safe to assume that they are "close enough" for the precision we require in applying those same calculations to far-away stars.

The precision we require is down to "millions/trillions of miles" away. Not down to the nearest inch.

You would only be correct if I were attempting to claim that we know how far stars are away from us down to the nearest inch.
But I'm not doing that, so your issue with my claim that we know stars are millions/trillions of miles away is irrelevant.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 594 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 2:25 AM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 613 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 3:56 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3036
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 608 of 655 (823189)
11-07-2017 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 602 by starman
11-06-2017 12:54 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
starman writes:

You can't use anything for distance. Gong! To do so assumes time exists and space equally all the way. Your game fails.

This point of reasoning is naοvely correct.

It is possible that space and time exist differently at another place in the universe.
As possible as it is that space and time exist differently at your house while you're at work.

But everything we're able to test/measure/check shows that space and time exist pretty much the same at your house and your work regardless of where you are.

As well, everything we're able to test/measure/check shows that space and time exist pretty much the same here as it does at far away stars.

Can it actually be different?

Of course it can.
And the first person to show that it is different, will get a Nobel Prize.
Just as the first person to show that space and time are different between your house and your work depending on where you are will also get a Nobel Prize.

They are equally as likely, equally as verified, and equally as assumed.

You can toss your chips where you like, and the rest of us can continue to make progress.

Progress is made basing our assumptions and tests on our continuing growth of knowledge.
When those tests or measurements show an issue and indicate that something different is going on - that is where we stop until we can understand the differences.
However, when those tests or measurements do not show any issues going on - that is where we continue with our confirmation and verifications so that we can grow and make progress.

We do not, ever, stop and study possible issues just because some guy on the internet writes a few sentences without any tests or measurements to back up their ideas. Such a method would never make progress as there's always some loon thinking they know things about reality that they cannot support. If they are correct, the normal method will identify it well enough (and better than the loon anyway) whenever it runs into it. If they are wrong, they're just a waste a time. Therefore, there is no gain in paying any attention to such loons.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 12:54 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:05 PM Stile has responded

    
starman
Inactive Member


Message 609 of 655 (823193)
11-07-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by Taq
11-06-2017 3:10 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
All streets are on earth. Here we know distances.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by Taq, posted 11-06-2017 3:10 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by Taq, posted 11-08-2017 1:04 PM starman has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 610 of 655 (823194)
11-07-2017 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 603 by RAZD
11-06-2017 2:22 PM


Re: Starman's total absence of argument via empty assertions
The demonstration is that you could not establish that space and time as we know them are homogeneous in the universe. Therefore no distances in the far universe can be determined from here!

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 603 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 2:22 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 615 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 5:22 PM starman has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 611 of 655 (823195)
11-07-2017 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 605 by RAZD
11-06-2017 3:38 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
Hey, science never knew the rings already supposed existed before the event!! They predicted a black hole...sorry none showed up.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 3:38 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 616 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 5:23 PM starman has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 612 of 655 (823196)
11-07-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 606 by RAZD
11-07-2017 7:06 AM


Re: Another starman failure
That does not apply to a little star in far off space that we don't know the distance to.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 7:06 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 5:25 PM starman has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 613 of 655 (823197)
11-07-2017 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 607 by Stile
11-07-2017 10:18 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
Satellites have not gone out of the solar system and area. Gong!

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Stile, posted 11-07-2017 10:18 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 614 of 655 (823198)
11-07-2017 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 608 by Stile
11-07-2017 10:37 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
quote:
This point of reasoning is naοvely correct.

It is possible that space and time exist differently at another place in the universe.
As possible as it is that space and time exist differently at your house while you're at work.

But everything we're able to test/measure/check shows that space and time exist pretty much the same at your house and your work regardless of where you are.


Except you can't see or measure time. Can you?
quote:
Of course it can.
And the first person to show that it is different, will get a Nobel Prize.
I think Jesus will show us one day, and the nobel nonsense will be extinct.
quote:
They are equally as likely, equally as verified, and equally as assumed.
You are in no position to say what is likely about time in the far unknown universe.
quote:

Progress is made basing our assumptions and tests on our continuing growth of knowledge.
No progress has been made determining if time exists in the far universe, it has been assumed.
quote:

We do not, ever, stop and study possible issues just because some guy on the internet writes a few sentences without any tests or measurements to back up their ideas.
Don't blame us if you are too busy to stop and actually think.

quote:

Such a method would never make progress as there's always some loon thinking they know things about reality that they cannot support.
Don't worry about it, you will never be able to find out on your own anyhow.
quote:

If they are correct, the normal method will identify it well enough (and better than the loon anyway) whenever it runs into it.
Their normal is too small to be able to punch thier way out of the fishbowl.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 608 by Stile, posted 11-07-2017 10:37 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 618 by Stile, posted 11-08-2017 9:00 AM starman has responded
 Message 631 by Phat, posted 11-09-2017 9:58 AM starman has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 615 of 655 (823227)
11-07-2017 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 610 by starman
11-07-2017 3:53 PM


Re: Starman's total absence of argument via empty assertions
The demonstration is that you could not establish that space and time as we know them are homogeneous in the universe. Therefore no distances in the far universe can be determined from here!

Denial is nothing but denial, ignoring the facts doesn't make them go away.

Fail #24

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 610 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 3:53 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 626 by starman, posted 11-08-2017 8:19 PM RAZD has responded

  
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