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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
ringo
Member
Posts: 14497
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 661 of 736 (824087)
11-22-2017 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Tangle
11-10-2017 6:32 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Tangle writes:

Overall it seems a preposterous waste of time....


An even bigger waste of time is telling people that they're wasting their time.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2017 6:32 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Tangle, posted 11-22-2017 3:30 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5569
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 662 of 736 (824094)
11-22-2017 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 661 by ringo
11-22-2017 2:37 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Ringo writes:

An even bigger waste of time is telling people that they're wasting their time.

Well the hope is that by investing a little time now a lot of time is saved later. But I admit that given the current combatants need to argue the pants of an ant, it's probably fruitless hope.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 661 by ringo, posted 11-22-2017 2:37 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 663 by Pressie, posted 11-23-2017 6:55 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1901
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 663 of 736 (824139)
11-23-2017 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 662 by Tangle
11-22-2017 3:30 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Not really. When it is shown exactly where and when modern creationists lie, it serves a good purpose.

My grand children, in a secular country, keep on being subjected to the lies of creationists. In state schools.

They have to attend Christian meetings. Every day. Compulsory. The President of my country promised that his party will be in power till Jesus comes. They learn about Adam And Eve and The Global Flood and all that nonsense. At school.

It's changing, though. The recent Supreme Court decision on equal opportunity for all religions got them to go into a flat spin and then disregard the court and claim that they won the court case. Yet, they want to appeal the decision, which they claim they won. Figure that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Tangle, posted 11-22-2017 3:30 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 104
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 664 of 736 (826935)
01-14-2018 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by Stile
11-10-2017 12:43 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
quote:
As long as there are no issues while acting like the stars are far away, science will continue to act as if the stars are far away.

Kids have no issues acting like Santa will come down the chimney.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by Stile, posted 11-10-2017 12:43 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 684 by Stile, posted 01-19-2018 1:01 PM creation has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 104
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 665 of 736 (826936)
01-14-2018 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 653 by jar
11-10-2017 7:53 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Like you had a choice.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 653 by jar, posted 11-10-2017 7:53 PM jar has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 104
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 666 of 736 (826938)
01-14-2018 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Percy
11-10-2017 2:01 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
quote:
We have hard evidence for how far away stars are..

Let's see it. You seem to believe you do. Ha.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Percy, posted 11-10-2017 2:01 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 667 by JonF, posted 01-15-2018 8:31 AM creation has not yet responded
 Message 668 by RAZD, posted 01-15-2018 9:15 AM creation has responded
 Message 669 by Percy, posted 01-15-2018 9:43 AM creation has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4059
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 667 of 736 (826957)
01-15-2018 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 666 by creation
01-14-2018 11:19 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
SN1987A. The topic of this thread.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 666 by creation, posted 01-14-2018 11:19 PM creation has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19476
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 668 of 736 (826959)
01-15-2018 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 666 by creation
01-14-2018 11:19 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Hi creation, and welcome to the fray.

quote:
We have hard evidence for how far away stars are..

Let's see it. You seem to believe you do. Ha.

See Message 597 and Message 599 for why we know the distance to SN1987A.

Enjoy

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 666 by creation, posted 01-14-2018 11:19 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 670 by creation, posted 01-15-2018 1:21 PM RAZD has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16963
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 669 of 736 (826965)
01-15-2018 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 666 by creation
01-14-2018 11:19 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
creation writes:

quote:
We have hard evidence for how far away stars are,...

Let's see it. You seem to believe you do. Ha.

The paragraph you extracted that sentence from explains in summary form how we know how far away stars are, and it includes a link to Wikipedia that contains a great deal more detail. Here's the full paragraph, including the link to Wikipedia:

Percy in Message 648 writes:

It's just about the word "accepting." We have hard evidence for how far away stars are, with the error ranges growing with increasing distance. There's also something called the cosmic distance ladder. It starts with the distances to close stars established through the parallax of Earth's orbit (e.g., Alpha Centauri) as a basis for establishing the distance to more distant stars, and moves outward from there using a variety of techniques.

We can discuss the details of how the distances to stars are established as much as you wish.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 666 by creation, posted 01-14-2018 11:19 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 671 by creation, posted 01-15-2018 1:25 PM Percy has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 104
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 670 of 736 (826984)
01-15-2018 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 668 by RAZD
01-15-2018 9:15 AM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
RAZD writes:

See Message 597 and Message 599 for why we know the distance to SN1987A

Not sure how you think space in our solar system is without time? The base line for the measurement is from the solar system you know, tens of millions of miles. To make that slice of space and time equal in your mind with other lines you draw to a star is assuming time exists not just on the base line, but all the way to the star and that is not known, only believed. So it is not known after all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 668 by RAZD, posted 01-15-2018 9:15 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 672 by Coragyps, posted 01-15-2018 1:37 PM creation has not yet responded
 Message 673 by RAZD, posted 01-15-2018 2:01 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 104
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 671 of 736 (826985)
01-15-2018 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 669 by Percy
01-15-2018 9:43 AM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
percy writes:

..explains in summary form how we know how far away stars are, and it includes a link to Wikipedia that contains a great deal more detail

Dealt with in last post to razd.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 669 by Percy, posted 01-15-2018 9:43 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 674 by Percy, posted 01-15-2018 5:57 PM creation has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5320
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 672 of 736 (826990)
01-15-2018 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 670 by creation
01-15-2018 1:21 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
The only time that enters into parallax measurement is the time it takes for the earth to travel halfway around the sun. Will you agree that six months on Earth is about, oh, six months in duration? And that the time doesn’t matter anyway, only the distance?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 670 by creation, posted 01-15-2018 1:21 PM creation has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19476
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 673 of 736 (827000)
01-15-2018 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 670 by creation
01-15-2018 1:21 PM


'creation' making the same bad arguments as 'starman'
Not sure how you think space in our solar system is without time? The base line for the measurement is from the solar system you know, tens of millions of miles. To make that slice of space and time equal in your mind with other lines you draw to a star is assuming time exists not just on the base line, but all the way to the star and that is not known, only believed. So it is not known after all.

Curiously that is the purpose of the game in Message 599 -- it makes any variation in time and the speed of light irrelevant and immaterial to the measurement. It would appear that you are not even trying to understand my arguments. Try again.

'starman' never provide evidence for his claims, and so far neither have you.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 670 by creation, posted 01-15-2018 1:21 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 675 by creation, posted 01-16-2018 9:57 AM RAZD has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16963
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(3)
Message 674 of 736 (827021)
01-15-2018 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 671 by creation
01-15-2018 1:25 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
creation writes:

percy writes:

..explains in summary form how we know how far away stars are, and it includes a link to Wikipedia that contains a great deal more detail

Dealt with in last post to razd.

Except that it wasn't. RAZD explained this issue in the message references he provided you that you're evidently either not reading or not understanding. The way I would briefly explain it myself would be to say that we know how fast time is proceeding at great distances from Earth by observing the rate of the passage of time through observing the natural processes taking place there, such as the frequencies at which various gases emit or absorb light.

I think it's great to be skeptical of scientific knowledge, but your issue seems less of skepticism and more of ignorance.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 671 by creation, posted 01-15-2018 1:25 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 676 by creation, posted 01-16-2018 10:03 AM Percy has responded
 Message 677 by Astrophile, posted 01-16-2018 11:14 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
creation
Member
Posts: 104
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 675 of 736 (827051)
01-16-2018 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 673 by RAZD
01-15-2018 2:01 PM


Re: 'creation' making the same bad arguments as 'starman'
razd writes:

it makes any variation in time and the speed of light irrelevant and immaterial to the measurement

You missed the point entirely rendering what you said immaterial. Light will move according to how time exists. If time exists here, as it does, we will see light move a certain speed in our space. No one says that changes. However if there was not time as we know it here, we would not expect light to move as we now see it move in time. The issue is whether time also exists the same as here in far space.

You do not know. Will you admit it now?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by RAZD, posted 01-15-2018 2:01 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by RAZD, posted 01-17-2018 8:58 AM creation has not yet responded

    
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