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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 886 of 944 (843574)
11-19-2018 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 883 by Tanypteryx
11-18-2018 12:46 PM


Re: Confusing
You say none of the billions can demonstrate they are not delusional. Proof?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 883 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-18-2018 12:46 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 888 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-19-2018 3:04 PM creation has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 887 of 944 (843575)
11-19-2018 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 885 by ringo
11-18-2018 1:11 PM


Re: Confusing
Kinds are biblical as is creation...your blather aside.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 885 by ringo, posted 11-18-2018 1:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 889 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 11:26 AM creation has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 888 of 944 (843599)
11-19-2018 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 886 by creation
11-19-2018 1:46 PM


Re: Confusing
Message 7
creation writes:

Too bad for you billions of people have experienced things that flush your little claim right down the toilet eh?

Tanypteryxreplies:
And yet not a single one of those billions can demonstrate that it is not a delusion.

creation writes:

You say none of the billions can demonstrate they are not delusional. Proof?

I was saying that not one of them can show that their religious beliefs are anything other than their imagination, just as you have been unable to show a shred of evidence that the stuff you are spouting is reality.

We all know that because if any evidence was discovered they would have showed it to everyone. So far nothing.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 886 by creation, posted 11-19-2018 1:46 PM creation has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15791
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 889 of 944 (843719)
11-20-2018 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 887 by creation
11-19-2018 1:47 PM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:

Kinds are biblical....


I didn't say they weren't. I said that Biblical kinds are NOT the immutable creationist kinds.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 887 by creation, posted 11-19-2018 1:47 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 891 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:39 AM ringo has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19720
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 890 of 944 (843743)
11-20-2018 3:53 PM


Can we get a thread topic reboot?
This thread has gone way off topic.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 891 of 944 (844088)
11-25-2018 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 889 by ringo
11-20-2018 11:26 AM


Re: Confusing
We are supposed to know what kinds you are talking about? Mankind for example was here from the start. No way to deny that is what the bible teaches. I would like to get on topic here also. Too bad that falsifying a young universe by SN1987a was a concept/claim that is already defeated here. Dead.

Wave the white flag and close the thread.

Speaking of dead has anyone heard from the thread originator here?? Is he OK?

Edited by creation, : No reason given.

Edited by creation, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 889 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 11:26 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 892 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 5:41 AM creation has not yet responded
 Message 893 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-25-2018 12:34 PM creation has not yet responded
 Message 894 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:32 PM creation has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 892 of 944 (844090)
11-25-2018 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 891 by creation
11-25-2018 3:39 AM


Re: Confusing
Speaking of dead has anyone heard from the thread originator here?? Is he OK?
His last post here was in 2006. We used to have more members, and it was not uncommon for people to come and go....we never got to know that particular member that well.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:39 AM creation has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 893 of 944 (844101)
11-25-2018 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 891 by creation
11-25-2018 3:39 AM


Re: Confusing
Mankind for example was here from the start. No way to deny that is what the bible teaches.

Fiction.

Too bad that falsifying a young universe by SN1987a was a concept/claim that is already defeated here. Dead.

Not by you.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:39 AM creation has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15791
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 894 of 944 (844114)
11-25-2018 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 891 by creation
11-25-2018 3:39 AM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:

Too bad that falsifying a young universe by SN1987a was a concept/claim that is already defeated here.


All you have done is claim, with no basis whatsoever, that we can't see that far. You have failed miserably, as creationism always does.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:39 AM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 895 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 1:40 PM ringo has responded
 Message 902 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:21 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 895 of 944 (844117)
11-25-2018 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 894 by ringo
11-25-2018 1:32 PM


Re: Confusing
Not that we dont enjoy discussions with creationists such as "creation" here. When we ridicule each others arguments, our intention is not to ridicule the poster.

quote:
From Forum Guidelines:
The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

I would hope that creation sees us as humans and not troll fodder. We certainly respect his presence, if not his arguments.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 894 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:32 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 896 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2018 1:45 PM Phat has responded
 Message 897 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:54 PM Phat has responded
 Message 901 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:17 PM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6397
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 896 of 944 (844123)
11-25-2018 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 895 by Phat
11-25-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Confusing
Phat writes:

We certainly respect his presence, if not his arguments.

His presence is not seperable from his posts - I won't call them arguments, they're pure ignorant, trolling drivel.

I can't respect anyone who behaves as disingenuously and stupidly as this.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 895 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 1:40 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 899 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 2:06 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15791
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 897 of 944 (844126)
11-25-2018 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 895 by Phat
11-25-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Confusing
Phat writes:

Not that we dont enjoy discussions with creationists such as "creation" here.


creation is not discussing anything.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 895 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 1:40 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 898 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 2:02 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 898 of 944 (844128)
11-25-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 897 by ringo
11-25-2018 1:54 PM


Trolls and Truthseekers Unite!
well it is true that he is trolling us a bit...he just likes to make himself feel better by attacking our views...but I noticed that he did ask about the topic originator...which shows some empathy on his part...more than what any garden variety troll would show. One wonders if either side in these discussions ever reads what the other side reads. I know that you do, ringo. You know the Bible better than many.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 897 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:54 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 899 of 944 (844130)
11-25-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 896 by Tangle
11-25-2018 1:45 PM


Re: Confusing
His presence is not separable from his posts - I won't call them arguments, they're pure ignorant, trolling drivel.

I can't respect anyone who behaves as disingenuously and stupidly as this.

Note that he showed empathy in post 891. Perhaps he has a smidgeon of Spirit in him apart from the boredom that spurs him to argue pointlessly with us. Besides...respect him simply for being human and choosing to come here. If you simply club all of the trolls out of existence, you end up with no converts.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 896 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2018 1:45 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 900 of 944 (844131)
11-25-2018 2:08 PM


Reminding Everyone Of The Original Topic
The young Universe position is logically on a weaker footing than an old Universe stance.
The YEC arguments base themselves as providing an alternative explanation for old Universe evidence.

They do not provide any 'facts' that categorically prove a young Universe, just supposed new interpretations that allow for a young Universe.

This being said, you only have to provide a single example of an old Universe that cannot be argued with and, ergo, you have falsified the young Universe position.

As I see it, there can be no way around the older Universe interpretation of the distance to supernova 1987A.

And I am talking about the GEOMETRICAL method of calculating the distance. This doesn't involve anything like standard candles, or relativistic redshifts but on good old trigonometry. (I do hope the YEC's accept trig.)

No way of varying the speed of light (one of the lamest concepts in YECdom) will at the same time explain this supernova being nearby and yet not changing the observed radioactive decay rates of the nickel and cobalt from the explosion.

This, and I stress, GEOMETRICAL distance gives a value of approx. 170,000 light years. No if's and's or but's about it.

Therfore, this supernova occurred 170,000 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And again, let me repeat, no tinkering with the light speed can get around this method of getting the distance whilst preserving the radioactive decay observations.

Thus we have a piece of evidence that directly FALSIFIES a less than 10,000 year old Universe. Now I accept that this on it's own doesn't give a 13.7 billion year old Universe, BUT it does the job with respect to falsifying creation being some 6-10 thousand years ago.

Comments?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

  
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