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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 901 of 944 (844182)
11-26-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 895 by Phat
11-25-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Confusing
I am not really looking at people here, just ideas and models and arguments. If ideas are revealed to be false, people can change ideas, regardless of the beliefs and ideas they once had...one hopes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 895 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 1:40 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 905 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 7:55 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 902 of 944 (844183)
11-26-2018 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 894 by ringo
11-25-2018 1:32 PM


Re: Confusing
Of course God set it up so man could see stars. They are made for us to see!

Seeing a star does not tell us it's size or distance or true nature. Yes we have info in incoming light that tells us that it seems to have certain elements in it. What else stars may have that we cannot detect/see we do not know. What time and space there are like we can only guess at and what man has done is impose the realities of earth and area out there also. If something takes 4 minutes to happen here, in the light we have here from there...well, man assumed that it also took the same time there.

Edited by creation, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 894 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:32 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 903 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 3:50 PM creation has responded
 Message 907 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 8:01 PM creation has responded
 Message 917 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 11:06 AM creation has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 903 of 944 (844200)
11-26-2018 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 902 by creation
11-26-2018 1:21 PM


Re: Confusing
Seeing a star does not tell us it's size or distance or true nature.

Obviously it does not tell YOU anything. It tells the rest of us many things, just as if your different nature is your imaginary, fictional fantasy.

Astronomers (and the rest of us) never consider your fantasy as reality. Thousands of papers about astrophysics discoveries are published every year and not one mentions your imaginary "change in nature." It's almost as if it doesn't exist.

Repeating fiction does not convert it to reality. Without evidence your fantasies are doomed to the dustbin.

What else stars may have that we cannot detect/see we do not know.

Well, no shit Sherlock.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 902 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:21 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 904 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 7:53 PM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 916 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:31 AM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 904 of 944 (844217)
11-26-2018 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 903 by Tanypteryx
11-26-2018 3:50 PM


Re: Confusing
Faith seems to think that once a believer chooses to take a leap of faith and surrender their mind to the Spirit, the confusion clears and becomes evident. creation, do you feel this way or do you agree with the timed honored scientific discipline of evidence?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 903 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 3:50 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 906 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 7:59 PM Phat has responded
 Message 915 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:29 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 905 of 944 (844218)
11-26-2018 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 901 by creation
11-26-2018 1:17 PM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:

If ideas are revealed to be false, people can change ideas, regardless of the beliefs and ideas they once had...one hopes.

To be fair, does this apply to creationists as well as science-based evolutionists?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:17 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 914 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:28 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 906 of 944 (844219)
11-26-2018 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 904 by Phat
11-26-2018 7:53 PM


Re: Confusing
Phat writes:

Faith seems to think that once a believer chooses to take a leap of faith and surrender their mind to the Spirit, the confusion clears and becomes evident. creation, do you feel this way or do you agree with the timed honored scientific discipline of evidence?

Huh?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 904 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 7:53 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 908 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 8:05 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 907 of 944 (844220)
11-26-2018 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 902 by creation
11-26-2018 1:21 PM


Two Questions
creation writes:

Of course God set it up so man could see stars. They are made for us to see!

Do you believe that God created the entire universe for us to see? Are we the central focus of Gods plan? Is God out there or is He in here with us? If so, how do we avoid anthropomorphizing God?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 902 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:21 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 913 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:25 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 908 of 944 (844221)
11-26-2018 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 906 by Tanypteryx
11-26-2018 7:59 PM


Re: Confusing
to clarify, Faith believes more along these lines....that the evidence follows the conclusion rather than the other way around.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 906 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 7:59 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 909 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 8:26 PM Phat has responded
 Message 912 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:23 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 909 of 944 (844223)
11-26-2018 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 908 by Phat
11-26-2018 8:05 PM


Re: Confusing
to clarify, Faith believes more along these lines....that the evidence follows the conclusion rather than the other way around.

And I repeat, huh? Why are you asking creation questions in a post to me and telling me about Faith's flawed reasoning?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 908 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 8:05 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 910 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 8:27 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 910 of 944 (844224)
11-26-2018 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 909 by Tanypteryx
11-26-2018 8:26 PM


Re: Confusing
Oops. Im sorry---I thought I was replying to the Lad. My bad.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 909 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 8:26 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 911 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 8:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 911 of 944 (844225)
11-26-2018 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 910 by Phat
11-26-2018 8:27 PM


Re: Confusing
OK, don't let it happen again.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 910 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 8:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 912 of 944 (844237)
11-27-2018 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 908 by Phat
11-26-2018 8:05 PM


Re: Confusing
Science tries to fit all things into it's little set of beliefs and rules.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 908 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 8:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 918 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 11:11 AM creation has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 913 of 944 (844238)
11-27-2018 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 907 by Phat
11-26-2018 8:01 PM


Re: Two Questions
Adam did not likely see all the universe. The visible stars, if I recall are only in the thousands. But the machinery of the stars and universe was for us, I would think. Perhaps one thing they somehow do is regulate time for us!? Seasons and times. Who knows?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 907 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 8:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 920 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 2:22 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 914 of 944 (844239)
11-27-2018 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 905 by Phat
11-26-2018 7:55 PM


Re: Confusing
Of course, to the extent that regardless of all this God's word remains true. Now if some believer thinks it happened one way, maybe they will learn it was actually different than that. I, for example stated my explorations into the origins and creation/evolution issues assuming that creation science so called of the day was correct. I now realize the flood year did not do it all, and deposit all layers...etc. ..But there was a flood!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 905 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 7:55 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 915 of 944 (844240)
11-27-2018 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 904 by Phat
11-26-2018 7:53 PM


Re: Confusing
The more one thinks that origin science used evidence rather than beliefs, that less chance they have of not being confused!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 904 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 7:53 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
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