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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 916 of 944 (844241)
11-27-2018 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 903 by Tanypteryx
11-26-2018 3:50 PM


Re: Confusing
The volume of stupid papers does not matter to stars. The way little man determines distances matters. To determine distances to stars time must be equal all the way to the star. You get that much?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 903 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 3:50 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 919 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 11:53 AM creation has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15791
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 917 of 944 (844258)
11-27-2018 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 902 by creation
11-26-2018 1:21 PM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:

Seeing a star does not tell us it's size or distance or true nature.


The only things that we can know about its "true nature" is what it tells us. You can rant all you like about "nature changing" but you can not know that it did.

creation writes:

What else stars may have that we cannot detect/see we do not know.


That is correct. WE do not know - and "we" includes YOU. YOU do not know that "nature has changed", so YOU can not draw meaningful conclusions based on the idea that "nature has changed".

creation writes:

What time and space there are like we can only guess at...


So you admit that you're only guessing.

creation writes:

... what man has done is impose the realities of earth and area out there also.


All we can do is apply what we do know in our attempts to understand what we don't know yet. Your guessing about "changes in nature" contribute nothing.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 902 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:21 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 922 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 4:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15791
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 918 of 944 (844259)
11-27-2018 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 912 by creation
11-27-2018 2:23 AM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:

Science tries to fit all things into it's little set of beliefs and rules.


Science tries to expand its rules to fit the facts. It's creationists who try to shoehorn the facts into what some ancient sheep herders believed.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 912 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:23 AM creation has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 921 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 2:24 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 919 of 944 (844264)
11-27-2018 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 916 by creation
11-27-2018 2:31 AM


Re: Confusing
The volume of stupid papers does not matter to stars.

Have you ever read one?

The way little man determines distances matters.

To who?

To determine distances to stars time must be equal all the way to the star.

Are you sure? How do you know that?

You get that much?

Much more.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 916 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:31 AM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 924 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 5:03 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 920 of 944 (844270)
11-27-2018 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 913 by creation
11-27-2018 2:25 AM


Re: Two Questions
creation writes:

But the machinery of the stars and universe was for us, I would think.

What machinery?

creation writes:

Perhaps one thing they somehow do is regulate time for us!? Seasons and times. Who knows?

Well, clearly not you. Everyone knows that peanut butter regulates time for us. Flat tires regulate the seasons.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 913 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:25 AM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 923 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 5:02 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 921 of 944 (844271)
11-27-2018 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 918 by ringo
11-27-2018 11:11 AM


Re: Confusing
It's creationists who try to shoehorn the facts into what some ancient sheep herders believed.

Goat herders.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 918 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 11:11 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 922 of 944 (844279)
11-27-2018 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 917 by ringo
11-27-2018 11:06 AM


Re: Confusing
Whatever light does it does here where it streams in from there. Here in our space and time. Merely seeing a spectra of some elements it contains does not give us a picture of what it is like out there, what time and space are like, or what else might also exist that we cannot see.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 917 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 11:06 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 928 by ringo, posted 11-28-2018 2:13 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 923 of 944 (844280)
11-27-2018 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 920 by Tanypteryx
11-27-2018 2:22 PM


Precision movement
Well, look at a clock. There may be little cogs going round...moving. If one does not know what one is looking at, it may appear as random movement. Same idea with stars. They move...there are some things orbiting/going round other things out there...etc. If it was all created as the bible states from cover to cover, then it is logical to assume that there are purposes and reasons for things that poor little man may not be aware of, though he see some movement!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 920 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 2:22 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 925 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 5:31 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 924 of 944 (844281)
11-27-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 919 by Tanypteryx
11-27-2018 11:53 AM


Re: Confusing
You get that time must be equal all the way to stars to know distances...and even more?

Or you like to type words that you thought sounded smart?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 919 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 11:53 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 926 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 5:49 PM creation has responded
 Message 927 by Coragyps, posted 11-27-2018 8:40 PM creation has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 925 of 944 (844288)
11-27-2018 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 923 by creation
11-27-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Precision movement
creation writes:

Well, look at a clock. There may be little cogs going round...moving. If one does not know what one is looking at, it may appear as random movement.

It may appear random to you, but to me it looks like a synchronized sequence of movements.

There is nothing about clocks that tells us about how stars or the Universe works.

creation writes:

Same idea with stars. They move...there are some things orbiting/going round other things out there...etc.

Things going around other things.....you are correct, you don't have a clue about the stars, the Universe, or much else.

creation writes:

If it was all created as the bible states from cover to cover

If? If? The bible is fiction and it barely mentions the stars.

creation writes:

then it is logical to assume that there are purposes and reasons for things that poor little man may not be aware of, though he see some movement!

No, it is not logical to assume that. You have not presented any reason for such an assumption.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 923 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 5:02 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 929 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:44 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1908
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 926 of 944 (844290)
11-27-2018 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 924 by creation
11-27-2018 5:03 PM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:

You get that time must be equal all the way to stars to know distances...and even more?

I get that you have not presented any evidence that the Universe works differently here and at Supernova 1987A. We are still waiting.

creation writes:

Or you like to type words that you thought sounded smart?

Clearly you think they sound smart or you would not have mentioned it.

I note that you didn't answer my question from Message 919 that you were responding to:

Tanypteryx writes:

creation writes:

The volume of stupid papers does not matter to stars.


Have you ever read one?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 924 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 5:03 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 930 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:48 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5365
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 927 of 944 (844303)
11-27-2018 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 924 by creation
11-27-2018 5:03 PM


Re: Confusing
You are mistaken again/still. Time has crap-all to do with measuring parallax, except that it takes six months for our earth to go half an orbit. And you, creation, have said that orbit is inside our “bubble “. Parallax is just 11th grade trigonometry.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 924 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 5:03 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 931 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:50 PM Coragyps has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15791
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 928 of 944 (844348)
11-28-2018 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 922 by creation
11-27-2018 4:58 PM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:

Whatever light does it does here where it streams in from there. Here in our space and time.


You're in the same space and time as everybody else. You don't see anything that everybody else doesn't see. So you can not claim that there is something different "out there". You're just making up fiction.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 922 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 4:58 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 932 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:51 PM ringo has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 929 of 944 (844367)
11-28-2018 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 925 by Tanypteryx
11-27-2018 5:31 PM


Re: Precision movement
There is nothing about the precision movements that tells you how creation works. Nor is there anything in those movements that tell us it was not created.

You are in no position to call the bible fiction. Science cannot say yay or nay, either way.

It mentions a fair bit about stars also.

What stars will do suddenly in the near future for example...go out! It mentions a star that guided some men to a specific house! It associates stars with the spiritual, which is more than poor science can do! Etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 925 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 5:31 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 933 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-28-2018 9:27 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 930 of 944 (844368)
11-28-2018 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 926 by Tanypteryx
11-27-2018 5:49 PM


Re: Confusing
We see the light from that SN here. Whatever working it does is here. How much time was involved getting here cannot be known by science! Not unless you prove time exists and exists the same there also, as it is here.

Likewise distances are not known. Any use of trigonometry has to use at least one line that is in unknown time and space! Whether we use the rings out there and draw lines to them, or whether we use a slice of time and space here and draw lines to a star!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 926 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2018 5:49 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 934 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-28-2018 9:34 PM creation has responded

    
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