Creationist scientific contributions

However, inspiration is not the same as the method by which he solved the structure. You can be inspired by all sorts of things that are purely subjective. However, to actually do the science, there had to be a testable and falsifiable hypothesis for which supportive evidence could be gathered. Thus, this is still an example of methodological naturalism. I would not have to be inspired by a dream to repeat Kekule's experiments. I would have to BE Stephen ben Yeshua to repeat his "prayer" experiments in support of the fart/demon connection since it is entirely subjective and non-falsifiable or even independently reproducible.

I agree Mammuthus that inspiration is subjective. But If one is inspired by god who's to say that the contribution did not happen by divine intervention, who's to say the good Dr. Kukele was not visited by an angel in his dream that inspired him to solve the structure of Benzene? Or better yet by one of Stephens Fart Demons. Just a thought however ridculous it may be. Of course your previous post makes since to me, I just like to keep a open mind. And am prepared to be raked over the coals by you in great fashion!

1.61803,If Dr. Kukele's were to follow creationist methodologies, he would have claimed to have discovered the shape of the benzene ring by inspiration alone, without ever testing or forming hypotheses. He would claim that God furnished the shape, and God's visions are innerrant and so they must be true.

I am not going to rake you over the coals..maybe toast a marshmallow or two I still disagree that the source of inspiration has anything to do with the process of scientific discovery. Kerry Mullis, who won the Nobel for developing the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) claims his inspiration was driving along a highway stoned out of his mind. However, the science itself was a pure product of methodological naturalism. Every part of his hypothesis was testable and falsifiable. Every experiment he did could be replicated by anyone and has (no pun intended here as PCR is about replicating molecules). The ultimate best explanation for PCR or the structure of benzene are natural and in no way require or depend upon supernatural explanations no matter what the source of inspiration of the individual who made the discovery. I can go and do a PCR experiment right now..I cannot make a testable or falsifiable hypthesis that farts are escaping demons. I have no reason to and a lot of reasons not to consider the supernatural in describing the natural world.

Two (I round to the nearest integer),I've always liked the Kekule story, and Thomas Pynchon even included it (along with everything else that would fit) in Gravity's Rainbow. If I recall correctly, he dreamed of a snake biting its own tail. This inspired him to hypothesize that the benzene (C6H6 for all you non-accountants) molecule has as its hub a ring of carbon atoms, each bonded to a hydrogen atom.I've never seen anything particularly otherworldly in this tale. No voice from the aethyr boomed "The benzene molecule is a ring, Herr Doktor," or something wacky like that. In fact, I think it sends a very realistic message about making 'information' out of things that are otherwise meaningless. Who's to say that Kekule wouldn't have solved the benzene riddle even if he'd forgotten all about the dream, or never had the dream at all?And let's put this in perspective. We're talking about basic chemistry here. Wouldn't we expect real divine intervention to direct us to a cure for cancer or AIDS, and not simply a more valid hypothesis of the molecular structure of a chemical known to cause leukemia?regards,
Esteban "Laird of the Ring" Hambre

I agree, I as well do not consider the supernatural as a means to describe the natural world. But I went to a grave yard in a old Texas town to disprove to some friends of mine claims that there was "supernatural" events taking place there at night. And skeptic that I am was still scared when I a went there. I guess I have a ways to go. By the way no supernatural events took place while I was there , well I may have farted a few times. LOL

If farting were truly evidence of demons, then cattle must be the most demon possessed creatures on the planet I think what you describe is a natural fear response to the unknown as opposed to a feeling of the supernatural. It is like watching the Blair Witch Project...you know that the kids were just actors and you know they are still alive and that it was a movie...but if you go out in the woods in the dark after seeing that movie (which I did), you might still be a bit nervous that you will be accosted by some extremely bad actors with a black and white camera that they cannot hold steady ...or my unatural fear that at any moment, Mr. Hambre might claim that Kid Rock can sing.

I didn't watch the Blair Witch Project, but it must not have been as effective as The Exorcist. I watched that with two friends when I was a teenager, and we walked at least a half mile out of our way so that we wouldn't have to go through the woods on the way home.

I think the reason I found the Blair Witch Project to be effective was that it left almost everything up to the imagination of the audience. It was not bloody. You never see the witch. You never see anything except the reactions of the three actors to what is happening to them...it must be like Stephen's demons...you never see them, you only see the reaction on peoples face when after a night of consuming Burrito Grande's at Taco Bell, Stephen commences his demonology research.

LOL!!!!ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
Mammanthus, I too saw the Blair Witch Project and agree the Scaryness of it came from the viewers own imagination. Sometimes less is more. I have a pretty vivid imagination so I was F#@$##ing scared. What was this thread about again??

Creationist contributions to science.In other words, this thread is about nothing.

It made perfect sense to me. If a scientist at a certain point in time can only be creationist, the what does his creationistness tell us? Squat.

Nit to pick, since we are all astray anyway: a Fart Demon would have led Kekule to the structure of indole, not benzene. Indole is responsible for the demonic fragrance of farts.Just wanted to set the record straight.

Thanks for that tid bit of info. That will come in handy should I care to impress a fart enthusist.