A Working Definition of God

What? Oh, come on. Not even children believe this. I mean, did you miss the part where Moses dies at the end? How did he write that part?And who writes eyewitness testimony in the third person? Crazy people, maybe? Which is just what you would tell people if you wanted them to believe something they could easily disprove by observation. When you realize that the Bible contains all manner of these pre-emptive assaults against the rational means people use to ascertain truth in their everyday lives, you begin to see exactly how you've been brainwashed. Oh, there's plenty of wonder around here. Most of us are wondering why you can't see the simple ridiculousness of most of what you bring before us. Oh, threats, eh? Very mature.

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[Percy]: The evidence from the OT would appear to contradict Magesterium Devolver's characterization of God as love, though this is the definition I like most, and since I don't take the OT literally I see no contradictions for myself.

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And I'll willingly admit in advance that books, such as the Book of Joshua, readilly present a very real challenge to the concept that God is love. This is a good example of the cognitive dissonance that I mentioned before.

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The problem is that the natural man has a false idea of what love is, thinking God should never punish sin. Consider that God showed mercy and patience to the idolaters of the land of Canaan for hundreds of years before He sent punishment to them. He told Abraham that he would not possess the land until the fullness of the sins of the people in the land had come about. He waited in patience.Romans 1 tells us that God's goodness and love is expressed in His forbearance of all the offenses of us sinners against Him for long long periods, in the hope that we will turn in repentance and be saved.But eventually God must punish offenses, and His love is also shown in the Bible in that He gives clear warnings of the coming of such punishments well in advance through his prophets, to give time to repent.Jonah was unhappy that God's love and mercy might actually lead the Ninevites to repentance, those Assyrians who were Israel's enemies, and tried to escape His calling to preach God's coming punishment to them, and when he was finally defeated by God and did preach it, they DID repent, and God relented, demonstrating God's love again.And scripture also says, "This is love, that He died for us when we were yet sinners."God's love does not exist apart from His justice.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-24-2005 01:06 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 04-24-2005 01:07 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 04-24-2005 01:14 PM

What he said was that he needed independent evidence that they are real people. Same thing. If he can't tell from the report that they are, it's hopeless.

Do you have a tape in you that just spits out these wisecracks and pat answers and ad hominems on cue? What passes for thinking around here is a joke.

If anyone has any last thoughts, now is the time to post them. Shutting this thread down very soon.

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A quick note of thanks for clarifying that paisano. Perhaps some other time we could discuss it further in another thread.

Just one quick reply Faith. I don't treat "faith" as a relative issue in the sense that what we have is a gift from God. I'm also firmly convicted that whatever faith we have is from the Holy Spirit. I would disagree with many of your assertions, but at the same time have done as I could to defend your position as far as my own faith is concerned.I think you have some valid points about the Scriptures -- and I do think there is a tendency to devalue what they have to say in our post-modern age. However, it was the church inspired by the Holy Spirit who wrote the Scriptures -- not the other way around.I would like some time to discuss this difference with you further when you have a chance. I realize that we will probably disagree on many things. But I think that we will both come out with a clearer understanding of what each of our denominations have to say -- and how we apply them to our faiths individually.

Sorry Dan and Mammuthus. I guess we'll have to try this some other time.

Long and rocky discussion that would be, Magisterium, but if you start such a thread I'm sure I'd join in. I've appreciated your support and honest differences.

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What he said was that he needed independent evidence that they are real people.

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Same thing. If he can't tell from the report that they are, it's hopeless.

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It was clear to me that he was not denying that they were "real people", as in the fact that the Israelites actually existed.What he is asking for is evidence that the particular people both reporting the events in the Bible and described in the Bible were real people.The Bible reports the existence of unicorns in the bible. Does this mean that there were actual unicorns in existence a few thousand years ago?The Bible say that Jesus' followers would be able to drink poison without harm. Does that mean that you can drink poison without harm?

THIS WAS A VISION, IT WAS SYMBOLIC OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT. GOOD GRIEF.

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Do you have a tape in you that just spits out these wisecracks and pat answers and ad hominems on cue?

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This is the best example of the pot calling the kettle black I have seen in a long time.You are one of the most prolific slingers of invective and insult we have ever had, IMHO, in the 6 years I have been a member. (not counting obvious trolls)None of us are blameless in this regard, (except maybe jar), including myself, but honesly, Faith, you really are quite rude.

No, no, no, everything in the Bible is literally true, including the existence of unicorns.Or is it the case that some things are literally true and some things are not?If the unicorn was figurative, then why can't Genesis be figurative? Both are contradicted by the evidence found in nature.Also, what about the drinking of poison, Faith?I have mentioned that at least 6 or 7 times in various places, and you have never addressed it.Edited to change "can" to "can't"This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-24-2005 02:27 PM

Now, please address the important part of my post: Can you do this?If not, then why should anyone else believe that these particular people existed?

Can someone sum up what points might be worthy of a continuation thread?Then this gets closed down.

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