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Author Topic:   Applying Science to Past Events
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Message 316 of 354 (145252)
09-28-2004 1:00 AM


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Message 317 of 354 (145253)
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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 320 of 354 (145256)
09-28-2004 1:00 AM


You asked how do mothers know they have all the data.
It doesn't matter. They are just drawing conclusions on the data. And because the data is so complete thioer common sense tells them the conclusion is right. In fact in the baseball case falsification could of said the ball was a plant with even of had been sent thru another window to put glass in it to coply the room in question. Yet a mother wouldn't go this far in testing her "hypothesis".
To be clear the scientific method is not a analysis statement of what takes place when we in daily life draw conclusions. Otherwise we all would literally be scientists.
NO it is a METHOD to examine systematically data to draw conclusion.
The Method is needed where it is needed. And it is needed where the data does not clearly tell the tale.
YES the method can be used step by step as in the baseball analagy to determine a past event. However the data is so complete as to nullify any actual need for a Method to draw a conclusion. Its practically (but not) observed.
Indeed one could offer a video of the event as a test of the hypothesis but why the hypothesis in the first place with such great evidence?
In origin subjects the Method is a needed thing to draw conclusion on scant (your word) evidence.
And creationists say the method is not employed here because it can't be. Not just that conclusions are wrong but that the method isn't used at all. It can't test its hypothesis about past events and processes.
And then I went too far in saying NO past event can be used by the Method. It seems it can but only because the data is SOOOO complete. In fact so complete as to make it irrelvant to use the Method in the first place.
You said science looks for plausible natural mechanisms. Agreed
However for it to claim it has found one by its special method,well this must be demonstrated.
That what it found was by the method.
And past and gone events and processes in these cases have not been brought under the scrunity of the Method. They are historical speculation.
Our great question here is still Is it Science? When dealing with what Toe etc asserts.
And we say No it is not science.
Rob

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Message 321 of 354 (145257)
09-28-2004 1:00 AM


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Message 322 of 354 (145258)
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Loudmouth
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Message 323 of 354 (145259)
09-28-2004 1:00 AM


quote:
The Method is needed where it is needed. And it is needed where the data does not clearly tell the tale.
YES the method can be used step by step as in the baseball analagy to determine a past event. However the data is so complete as to nullify any actual need for a Method to draw a conclusion. Its practically (but not) observed.
But it wasn't apparent from general inspection, as your earlier posts show. You kept asking me how to test the baseball to see if that particular ball was the culprit. It was not apparent. Even yourself said that the ball could have been there before the window pane was broken. Yes, the evidence is very complete, but it takes the scientific method to interpret it. Without the scientific method, how could I have reliably come to the conclusion that the baseball broke the window?
quote:
Indeed one could offer a video of the event as a test of the hypothesis but why the hypothesis in the first place with such great evidence?
The scientific method can test whether or not the video is a fake (digitally forged). Whether or not the video is from the day and time of the incident. Whether or not the video is of the house in question. There is still room for the scientific method even with a video tape.
quote:
In origin subjects the Method is a needed thing to draw conclusion on scant (your word) evidence.
And creationists say the method is not employed here because it can't be.
The evidence is scant, and I would think that every scientist would agree with this. The scientific method, in regards to origins, allows us to conclude possible natural mechanisms that could have resulted in life. This is what the scientific method allows us to do, construct plausible explanations for observed phenomena. I said this in an earlier post. Instead of repeating your assertion that the scientific method can not be applied to origins, could you please comment on my explanation above? I will also add that the scientific method will never conclusively give us a solid theory on origins. However, this does not mean that the scientific method can not be employed.
quote:
It seems it can but only because the data is SOOOO complete. In fact so complete as to make it irrelvant to use the Method in the first place.
You can stop with the equivocations already. The completeness of the data only allows a more solid conclusion. The scientific method is a tool that can be used on complete or incomplete data. Even with the complete list of data from the baseball analogy we still can't say, with 100% certainty, that the baseball broke the window. However, we can claim with very little tentativity that it did break the window. For origins, we can state with major tentativity that certain pathways could lead to life. This is because the data, to this point, is very limited. However, the scientific method is still being used.

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