Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9161 total)
0 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,585 Year: 2,842/9,624 Month: 687/1,588 Week: 93/229 Day: 4/61 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Religious Nature of Evolution, or Lack Thereof
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 212 (110048)
05-23-2004 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Chiroptera
05-15-2004 3:00 PM


Evolution a Religion?
I have heard this argument, (if that is the correct term), several times and while there are any number of adherents to the TOE who may indeed have some religious beliefs, and while evolutionary thinking is nearly as old as man himself, I found only one reference to religion that could apply to the TOE.
Searching the dictionary definition of religion, it was not until I reached the 4th example that any correlation could be made. The given definition is as follows; Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
By using that definition, nearly every aspect of life could be considered as being religious in nature, depending on the person involved, and the cause, principle, or activity in which they were engaged.
Personally, I would have say that I am extremely religious when consuming a taco supreme. I attack it with a zeal, perhaps even extreme prejudice, devoting my full attention on it until it has been completely devoured.
I have read some articles about the roots of evolutionary thoughts and ideas being linked to some ancient pagan practices but there is little evidence to support this claim. For the life of me, I can't remember the last time I ran across an acient pagan civilization preaching the tenets of evolution.
However "religiously" devoted to the TOE a person may be, the common understanding of religion, or being religious, denotes a recognition of, and a devotion to, some sort of higher power, whether it be referred to as god or spirit or whatever. Anyway, that is my thinking on this matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Chiroptera, posted 05-15-2004 3:00 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by AdminNosy, posted 05-23-2004 11:17 PM DarkStar has replied
 Message 69 by almeyda, posted 05-23-2004 11:31 PM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 212 (110761)
05-26-2004 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by AdminNosy
05-23-2004 11:17 PM


Re: Welcome
I have re-read the forum guidelines but am unsure of where I may have stepped over the line. Do not want to violate the rules or step on any toes here so any help or advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by AdminNosy, posted 05-23-2004 11:17 PM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by AdminNosy, posted 05-26-2004 9:32 PM DarkStar has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 212 (110763)
05-26-2004 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by almeyda
05-23-2004 11:31 PM


Re: Evolution a Religion?
Sorry Almeyda, but I think that you may have misunderstood my intention in my initial post. Wasn't trying to make any point other than my understanding of religion according to the dictionary.
I surely do not want anyone to get the impression that I find christians, or christianity, offensive in any way. Neither would I ever want to imply that a taco could substitute for a legitimate belief system.
I hope I have not offended you in any way. If I have, I apologize.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by almeyda, posted 05-23-2004 11:31 PM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by almeyda, posted 05-26-2004 11:27 PM DarkStar has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 212 (110969)
05-27-2004 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Loudmouth
05-27-2004 2:53 PM


Re: Evolution a Religion?
It was short and to the point, but unfortunately no links or references were given, which leaves me with the task of investigating another claim on my own. Nevertheless, I thank you for the link.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Loudmouth, posted 05-27-2004 2:53 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 212 (110971)
05-27-2004 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
05-27-2004 3:52 PM


Re: Evolution a Religion?
jar: "It still has NOTHING to do with Evolution being a religion or even having a religious nature. In addition, since the "VAST MAJORITY" of Christians, not to mention "ALL OTHER RELIGIONS", also support TOE, it is patently false." (emphasis mine)
Now that is an interesting quote, one which I have not yet heard. I did not notice any links or references in your post to support this claim so if you have them please provide them for me. I only ask this because the vast majority of christians I have personally spoken with are of the opposite view regarding the theory of evolution, in that they deny its validity outright.
As for all other religions, I will have to defer that to others who have knowledge of such because I am not knowledgeable enough to comment due to the fact that I have not had any associations with the members of all other religions.
Cheers
This message has been edited by DarkStar, 05-27-2004 06:39 PM

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 05-27-2004 3:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by nator, posted 05-27-2004 7:52 PM DarkStar has replied
 Message 102 by jar, posted 05-27-2004 8:07 PM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 212 (111297)
05-28-2004 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by nator
05-27-2004 7:52 PM


Re: Evolution a Religion?
Hello Schrafinator
Forgive me for saying so but your contention is as much of a blanket statement as the one I replied to. All I am asking for here is a link to the poll, or polls that can substantiate these claims. I do believe that forum rule #4 would apply here, unless of course you are speaking only of those catholics and protestants with whom you have personally spoken. Then I do not think the rule would apply. Anyway, I cheerfully await any information that you are able to supply me with and I thank you in advance for your kind help in this matter.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by nator, posted 05-27-2004 7:52 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by nator, posted 05-30-2004 9:25 AM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 212 (111303)
05-28-2004 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
05-27-2004 8:07 PM


Re: Evolution a Religion?
Thanks for your reply. I would have to agree with you on the thought of the theory of evolution not being religious in nature, though I do know of several individuals who support it religiously. Also, thanks for the clarification of "simple majority" but I was hoping that you could supply me with a link to a poll or something that could help to confirm your statement.
I have met with, and talked with thousands of christians from nearly every denomination over the past several decades and the conclusion that I have come to is that the vast majority of them cling to the notion of a young earth and totally reject the idea of evolution.
Personally, I can't understand the logic in clinging to this notion of the earth being only 6000 to 7000 years old but then I suppose some people can't understand why evolutionists believe in a much, much older planet when they read the creation account in genesis. I don't try to explain things to them, mostly because I am not knowledgeable enough to do so.Anyway, if you do have any links to polls or anything like that, I would very much appreciate your supplying them for me.
Also, (and this is for those creationists out there), in keeping with the framework of this thread, I would appreciate any links, (and I would think that there would be at least one, if not several), to any polls of evolutionists who consider their adherence to the theory of evolution as being religious in nature, or even the theory of evolution being a bonafide religion.
I have used several search engines but find little evidence of evolutionist behaviour that could be considered as being religious. If anything, and correct me if I am wrong here, they are on the opposite end of the spectrum because they are willing to continually change their way of thinking, (reminds me of mormons and catholics), when scientific study shows that any current belief is in error.
Hardcore religious belief on the other hand, (and yes I know there are exceptions to the rule. I studied catechism and know first hand that the ten commandments in the catholic bible and those taught in catechism are not exactly the same), is steadfast in adhering to the tenets of whatever doctrine has been handed down through the ages.
As far as I know, 2000 years after the fact, the majority of christians still believe that jesus died on a cross and rose from the dead three days later. Now that's a religion, baby!
I challenge any creationist to show me that kind of steadfast belief in the tenets of the theory of evolution, with the exception of the assertion that it actually happened, I'll give you that one when it comes to "religiously" believing in something. The torch is lit. Anyone care to pick it up and run with it?
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 05-27-2004 8:07 PM jar has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 147 of 212 (112858)
06-04-2004 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by nator
05-30-2004 9:25 AM


Re: Evolution a Religion?
Many thanks Schrafinator!
I truly appreciate the time and effort taken for your response.
Cheers
p.s. Now if I can only get a creationist to reciprocate in like manner to the request as stated in post #114
This message has been edited by DarkStar, 06-04-2004 08:29 PM

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by nator, posted 05-30-2004 9:25 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by nator, posted 06-05-2004 9:45 PM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 149 of 212 (113065)
06-06-2004 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by nator
06-05-2004 9:45 PM


Re: Evolution a Religion?

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by nator, posted 06-05-2004 9:45 PM nator has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 212 (113139)
06-07-2004 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by crashfrog
05-31-2004 7:43 AM


crashfrog says "Says you, but once again, the data shows that it's Christians that commit crimes and atheists who, largely, don't."
Not quite sure where you get your information but my study of history brings me to the opposite conclusion. The crusaders, marching under the banner of the cross, slaughtered innocents by the tens of thousands. Stalin, a naturalist, slaughtered millions. Hitler and the nazis, avowed evolutionists, also slaughtered millions. And yet one could hardly argue that the crusaders epitomized the virtues of christ, Stalin epitomized the virtues of naturalism, or Hitler epitomized the virtues of the theory of evolution.
Claiming a title and then behaving in a manner completely contradicting that claim does not in any way make the claim valid. I have never met a christian mass murderer. Why? Because they don't exist, that is an oxymoron. I have never met a yec evolutionist. Why? Because they don't exist, that is an oxymoron.
So the next time you read somewhere that it's christians that commit crimes and atheists who don't, consider the source, and the utter stupidity and ignorance of the persons from which the information originated. Anyone can put on a label but that doesn't make the label true.
If it did, I could label myself as god, condemn you to immediate and eternal hellfire, thereby prohibiting you from even responding to this post. Simply labeling myself as god doesn't make it so, but maybe I am wrong and right now you are tumbling into the eternal abyss of hellfire. If I don't hear from you I will know that I am the almighty god that christians keep preaching about, but something tells me that aint' gonna happen and your reply is forthcoming.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by crashfrog, posted 05-31-2004 7:43 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by crashfrog, posted 06-07-2004 2:23 AM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 152 of 212 (113497)
06-08-2004 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by crashfrog
06-07-2004 2:23 AM


Think, baby, Think!
You're filling out a questionnaire and you come to the section that requires you to state your sex. You're a male but you fill in the space where it says female. Are you truly a female or did you just call yourself one?
Someone asks you what your sexual preference is and you tell them that you are gay when in reality you are heterosexual. Did you instantly become gay or are you still straight?
Think, baby, think.....labels don't mean shit if you don't live up to the expectation of that label. Sorry for the expletive!
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by crashfrog, posted 06-07-2004 2:23 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 1:47 AM DarkStar has replied
 Message 156 by crashfrog, posted 06-08-2004 2:02 AM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 212 (113498)
06-08-2004 1:46 AM


Getting back on track now
The religious nature of evolution, or lack thereof......
How many evolutionists in this forum are of the mind that a god, any god, guided creation through the process of evolution and does this in any way support the idea that evolution is a religion?
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 1:51 AM DarkStar has replied
 Message 157 by JonF, posted 06-08-2004 9:42 AM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 158 of 212 (113690)
06-08-2004 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
06-08-2004 1:47 AM


Hitler a Christian? Oh the lies that people will believe.
Was Hitler a Christian?
http://www.geocities.com/mikem2u/hitler.html
The Hitler of Mein Kampf
What did he believe in? Christianity? Evolution? Other gods?
http://www.geocities.com/mikem2u/meinkampf.html
Was Hitler a Christian?
Was Hitler a Christian? - Answers.org
Tell a lie loud enough, long enough and often enough and people will believe it.____________________ Adolph Hitler
I guess in your case, Hitler was right!
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 1:47 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 9:28 PM DarkStar has replied
 Message 174 by Loudmouth, posted 06-10-2004 2:06 PM DarkStar has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 159 of 212 (113691)
06-08-2004 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by JonF
06-08-2004 9:42 AM


Re: Getting back on track now
[JonF: .....does this in any way support the idea that evolution is a religion? No.]
I would have to agree with you 100%
While it may cause you to be referred to as "religious" in nature, it has absolutely nothing to do with evolution being a religion. It would be a personal choice on your part and nothing else.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by JonF, posted 06-08-2004 9:42 AM JonF has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 212 (113692)
06-08-2004 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by crashfrog
06-08-2004 2:02 AM


Huh?
[crashfrog: Why should I believe them over you? How can you expect me to believe that you of all people are a Christian?]
I don't expect you to believe that I am a christian because I have never said that I was one. Not sure where you got that but you might want to stop trying to read between the lines because 'it aint' workin' for ya!'
Now, logically thinking, can I call myself an evolutionist and then deny the theory of evolution? Sure I could, but that wouldn't mean that I was a true evolutionist, now would it? I don't think so but maybe you still disagree.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by crashfrog, posted 06-08-2004 2:02 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024