Equating science with faith

Hi Rahvin, Before I get in trouble let me see if I understand this.In this thread these things will be absolutes.Faith will be the belief in things for which there are no proof.No proof will be not observable, not testable and not reproducible.Science will be anything we can observe, and test that is reproducible.Is this what you are saying we need to agree on if we are to have meaningful debate?Correct anything that is incorrect.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi True, I am only trying to find out what the ground rules are. As you know I get into trouble all the time by assuming. I am trying not to make that mistake before I begin to type.Am I supposed to understand teslanese?I find my definition of faith in: But personally I believe in God just as much as I do in the keyboard I am typing on and I have just as much evidence for God as I do the keyboard. I have been privileged to visit His House and I am not talking about a Church building.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, You quote my entire message and then this was all you have to say about it. So much for debate. Message 1 In the OP you state: This is three assertions you made.In Message 7
Here you make a statement about the definition of faith.Then you commence to make 3 assertions.Now in msg 21 you want to add: Is this not what Rob and Straggler are debating?These two are based on the human mind examining things and coming to conclusions based on what they conclude is correct.How can these 2 additions be compatable with the the six assertions you had previously made?Especialy this one: " based 100% on observable, objective evidence and repeatable experiments."God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, I thought you had already determined we had 100% certainty at least about some things.As you state Here: I would love to see the information that makes this a fact as I seem to keep finding too many people that disagree with you.Is this a fact which would be indisputable.Or is this your personal belief that it is a fact?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, If I am a bot that is being controled by a human you would be mistaken.Since you never answered my last post I might as well throw another log on the fire. Message 45
You state Here: Since you are refering to T=10^-43
Would you please supply some of those mountains of reproducible, objective, testable evidence to support this point?God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : try to correct mathEdited by ICANT, : No reason given.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Thank you kindly Dr.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, But it is the topic.Message 392 of 410 03-10-2008 11:43 AM When you posted this message you were 100% positive that expansion was a fact. The only way you could have been that sure was by your FAITH. You just proved that with msg 70.Now you say: Along with your version of expansion with the statement it is just as much a fact as gravity.Since you already stated expansion was a fact then said it was tentative. You should not be too surprised that I don't have enough faith in you to accept your word for it.I know you have faith in what you believe, but I got to have something a little bit stronger than your word.I await your evidence on this point. Very observant.Then we move to your statement: "the universe simply exists".But you were referring to T=10^-43 as you had several times when we had discussed the Big Bang.Now you either accept the fact that the universe simply exists at T=10^-43 by "FAITH" or you have reproducible, objective, testable evidence to support this assertion.I am not asking you to bash your head against a brick wall.I am asking what evidence you use to determine the universe simply exists at T=10^-43 .I am not asking for the gospel of the universe, just the facts.
That is all I have ever asked.I await your evidence on this point.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, I would like to read the literature that you got this drivel from.And by the way you have more faith in your science than I do in my God. Your science does require faith and you are too blind to see it. I have been asking for that evidence for a year and have been given "ZERO" I have been given many assertions but assertions are not evidence. They are only someone's opinion.You want to convince me or anybody else produce the evidence that proves you do not take Origins on Faith. It is all based on FAITH as per your definition of faith. Message 7"2. belief that is not based on proof:"God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Please, no replies to this message, unless you can generalize away from the cosmological topic. --AdminHi bluescat48, Good question.Anything at and everything prior to T=10^-43 has to be believed by faith.I have learned some things over the past year even though no one thinks I have.One of the things I have learned is: Here
Son Goku says, If the singularity is a mathematical equation and not physical then it can not be the universe.Another of the things I have learned is: Here Son Goku says,This pea sized universe is at T=10^-43.The only way that universe can be there is to believe it is there by "FAITH" there is no evidence for it being there.From the point the Big Bang Theory takes over and begins to describe what took place there is evidence, some of which is questioned.Similar evidence is presented in the Bible.God Bless,Edited by Admin, : No reason given.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, I have studied Church History and I find no point that those things were taught in the Church History I have studied. I did not study Catholic Church History so I don't know what they taught.I am aware that many pagan religions have taught many things in the past, but you can't blame that on God. Then again I guess you could as you don't believe He exists.I found an article "Why Not Angels by Donald E. Simanek, February, 2006 that talks about those things. http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/philosop/angels.htmI found this when I googled angels pushing the planets around.
http://www.12x30.net/angel.html
Speculation about Archangels
But it does not mention angels pushing the planets around only that the Arch in Archangel talked of the planets moving in an arch.When I googled the angels holding things down as gravity I got nothing. I will agree there are many things that Science has done. There are many things that are believed because of tentative evidence presented by Science. I even believe that there are Scientific facts that will never be refuted. But that is just my belief.True Science is a marvelous thing and has contributed much to society in the past. Especially in the past 30 or 40 years and as knowledge increased it is speeding up the things that can be accomplished. These are not in question and have never been in question as far as I am concerned.What I question is the blind faith in the origin of the universe and the origin of life.As per your definition of faith. Because there is no observable, objective, or repeatable evidence for either. Scientific models have nothing to do with the origin of the universe and the origin of life.You and others are exasperated at me because I have asked questions basically about the origin of the universe. Your frustration comes from not having an answer, and not having the honesty to admit that by faith you believe the universe came into existence.I agree there has been much information asserted, some even cited by Son Goku. I did question many things about the Big Bang Theory and still do. I found many questions about the BBT and asked them here none were refuted. Sylas would have challenged several of the references I cited if he had been here. I found where he did challenge several of them in another thread a couple of years ago. You are correct it is all there in black and white so they can go back and see how many assertions were made. They can see how many time you or anyone else quoted an authority as a basis for belief. They can also see how many scientific papers were cited as evidence by you are anyone else.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Since there is no way to question the Faith required to believe in the origin of the universe I have nothing futher to add to this thread.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, No heart attack please, but I agree faith is not required here.If all of a sudden with only the evidence available now it was declared that life appeared from non-life then faith would be required.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."