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Author Topic:   No evolution/creation debate in Europe
peracutus
Junior Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 4
Joined: 12-20-2007


Message 1 of 107 (442332)
12-20-2007 6:37 PM


Europe is having a laugh. You know why? Because a large percentage of the people in our country, the United States of America still believe that god created Adam and Eve and therefore all mankind. Ask the right questions and you will get the right answers;

Did god create PC's? No Scientists did.
Did god tell you to use nitrate fertilizers and herbicides to increase your crop yield? No Mr. Farmer science did.
Did god tell us what genes in the DNA stand for? No that was science.

We are able to create life forms because of science. Today medicine cures lethal illnesses that killed thousands of people in the past.

Science solves problems!

God might help you to get over the loss of a beloved relative but he will not solve problems for you because after all he is just an imaginary figure that we call now and then to help us understand the unknown and help us to get rid of unwanted feelings like fear or sorrow.

Europe is having a laugh. Please make them shut up! There is no such discussion going on in Europe because of the huge amount of apparent evidence in favor of evolution. Make me a patriot again and start believing in facts everyone.

-

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Changed topic title from "No such debate in Europe" to "No evolution/creation debate in Europe".


Replies to this message:
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 Message 12 by jar, posted 12-21-2007 12:41 PM peracutus has not yet responded
 Message 14 by Jon, posted 12-21-2007 1:19 PM peracutus has not yet responded
 Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2007 1:46 PM peracutus has not yet responded
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peracutus
Junior Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 4
Joined: 12-20-2007


Message 2 of 107 (442429)
12-21-2007 8:44 AM


May I request to copy my thread to “Education and Creation/Evolution“ since the whole Creation vs Evolution dispute is mostly due to the low educational standards of our school system?
    
AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 107 (442441)
12-21-2007 9:54 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Zucadragon
Member (Idle past 1086 days)
Posts: 61
From: Netherlands
Joined: 06-28-2006


Message 4 of 107 (442442)
12-21-2007 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by peracutus
12-20-2007 6:37 PM


Europe is having a laugh.

I think you are a bit missinformed about how europe looks towards the debate.. Yes I agree that a lot of the countries have a more scientific attitude towards creationism and intelligent design but trust me when I say we have our share of trouble brewing up.

From a company I had an internship at where people were working on looking for signs of "intelligent design" in the things they were studying, festivals with speakers on creation science and intelligent design. To the general schools and districts that start to get into the whole "teach the controversy in science class" idea..

Its not as quiet or as funny in europe as some might think... Though I do admit, its not as extreme as it is in america, either.


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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 107 (442445)
12-21-2007 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Zucadragon
12-21-2007 10:01 AM


Schools
Hi Zucadragon. A hearty welcome to you and Peracutus. What about the schools in Europe compared to the US so far as freedom for balanced debate relative to intelligent design vs evolution etc? Imo America the so called free is not free in this respect.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 107 (442447)
12-21-2007 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by peracutus
12-20-2007 6:37 PM


Fairness and Balance in Science
peracutus writes:

Did god tell you to use nitrate fertilizers and herbicides to increase your crop yield? No Mr. Farmer science did.
Did god tell us what genes in the DNA stand for? No that was science.

We are able to create life forms because of science. Today medicine cures lethal illnesses that killed thousands of people in the past.

Science solves problems!

1. In both Europe and America organic garding and farming (abe:science) has produced higher quality and healthier crops the old fashioned way void of all the problems like soil depletion and health matters. Science is ruining out soils and making us sicker.

2. Science's health cures are rife with dangerous side effects, far more so than with the old fashioned diet and the old fashioned herbal remedy (abe: science).

The above is not against science. It's about mainline science vs alternative sciences relative to fairness and balance.

Edited by Buzsaw, : add title

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by peracutus, posted 12-20-2007 6:37 PM peracutus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 7 of 107 (442448)
12-21-2007 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
12-21-2007 10:17 AM


Re: Schools
Good point, Buz.

I also wonder if students in a science class there are allowed to argue that Crow freed the People from a clam shell?


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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 8 of 107 (442449)
12-21-2007 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
12-21-2007 10:17 AM


Re: Schools
There is nothing to teach about Intelegent Design Buz. There is no ID model.

The only possible model ID has is a financial one designed to get gullible Christian Cult of Ignorance and Communion of Bobbleheads to send bucks. That is the sum and substance of the Intelligent Design proponents.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 9 of 107 (442450)
12-21-2007 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
12-21-2007 10:29 AM


In comes the Clown
Not only is all that nonsense off topic Buz, it is still absolutely nothing but a repetition of assertions you keep making but like your Biblical Prophecy and End Times crap have NEVER been able to support.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 107 (442458)
12-21-2007 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
12-21-2007 10:39 AM


Re: Jar's Usual Personal Attack
Jar this like most threads you engage ID creationists in IS NOT A CREATIONIST PERSONAL ATTACK THREAD.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 12-21-2007 10:39 AM jar has not yet responded

  
CK
Member (Idle past 1657 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 11 of 107 (442460)
12-21-2007 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
12-21-2007 10:17 AM


Re: Schools
quote:
What about the schools in Europe compared to the US so far as freedom for balanced debate relative to intelligent design vs evolution etc? Imo America the so called free is not free in this respect.

I don't know about the rest of Europe but in the UK, Intelligent design is seen the same as believing in a flat earth, it's just not an issue for serious discussion* - the idea of wasting precious schooltime to discuss such a non-issue would be seen as madness. The only place it would be discussed is maybe in a social sciences class where students would be studying american society or the like or it might be mentioned in passing while discussing evolution - but no school would devote any serious amount of time to it.

* very very rarely, someone tries to get creationism into the classroom in a ad-hoc fashion but it's quickly stamped on.

Just asked the missus father (A science teacher), if they teach about Intelligent design in Belgium - his answer was pretty much what mine was.

Edited by CK, : clarification.

Edited by CK, : No reason given.

Edited by CK, : typo


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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 12 of 107 (442476)
12-21-2007 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by peracutus
12-20-2007 6:37 PM


You need to remember that it is all about MONEY
ID and Creationism have several major advantages that make them ideal commercial businesses, particularly in the US. You don't have to have and facts, you don't have to tell the truth even, you are not subject to "Truth in Advertising Laws" and even the Federal financial oversight is less than for other corporations.

The beauty of the ID and Creationism business are several fold. First it is an "Ethics Free Zone". There is no need to tell the truth or even correct fallacies when they are pointed out. The only requirement is that you tell the customers what they want to hear.

If you look at the business you find that the value of a PRATT (Point Refuted a Thousand Times) is still as high as before it was refuted, perhaps even higher. The only costs involved in the ID or Creationism Market is showmanship and the buyers have been trained since birth to know their eternal live depends on buying as much of the nonsense being sold as possible.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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Zucadragon
Member (Idle past 1086 days)
Posts: 61
From: Netherlands
Joined: 06-28-2006


Message 13 of 107 (442481)
12-21-2007 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
12-21-2007 10:17 AM


Re: Schools
I know that discussions and projects have been made for students that look into intelligent design and creation (ism/science).. Though I don't know to what extent it is being considered as actual science class material.
This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 107 (442489)
12-21-2007 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by peracutus
12-20-2007 6:37 PM


What is this supposed to prove?


Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 5512
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 15 of 107 (442499)
12-21-2007 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by peracutus
12-20-2007 6:37 PM


Confusing mechanisms with causation
Did god create PC's? No Scientists did.

Okay, first of all, scientists didn't create PC's in the same way that Al Gore didn't create the internet. Secondly, the argument is that God created the scientist.

Did god tell you to use nitrate fertilizers and herbicides to increase your crop yield? No Mr. Farmer science did.

The counter-argument is that God created Mr. Farmer.

Did god tell us what genes in the DNA stand for? No that was science.

The counter-argument is that God wrote the DNA blueprint that is being interpreted by science -- and moreover, that God is science.

I think you see where this is going... You can't make asinine comments in EvC and expect everyone to glean some sort of profundity from it.

We are able to create life forms because of science. Today medicine cures lethal illnesses that killed thousands of people in the past.

Yes, it does. I assume that was some argument against the existence of God...????

God might help you to get over the loss of a beloved relative but he will not solve problems for you because after all he is just an imaginary figure that we call now and then to help us understand the unknown and help us to get rid of unwanted feelings like fear or sorrow.

The counter-argument is that God does exist. Since the (non)-existence of God is something that cannot be proven empirically in either direction, you speak only from personal experience -- or lack thereof. You don't speak for the rest of us.

Europe is having a laugh.

And? Feel free to go live in Europe.

There is no such discussion going on in Europe because of the huge amount of apparent evidence in favor of evolution.

Maybe there should be.

Make me a patriot again and start believing in facts everyone.

I can't make you stop being a fair-weathered patriot. Either be patriot, or don't.

Alright, I have a question for you. How you answer the question will greatly imply how you view the world:

If I asked what love is, from a scientific perspective, of course, what will your answer be? What is love?

You may say something along the lines of, well, studies indicate that when shown pictures of loved ones while hooked up to EKG monitors, that the patients brain light up in key areas. This indicates that love is tantamount to synapses in the brain sending signals throughout the brain, thus releasing endorphines that inundate the body, causing a warm, euphoric sensation. That is what love is

And you know, that's a decent answer, except that no one actually explained a thing, and lest of all, explained what love is and how it occurs.

Because any good scientist would not conclude that reactions in the brain equals love. Rather, a good one would deduce that this is the physical manifestation that occurs because of love.

Since you are fond of science, which we all are, but you seem to think that it provides every answer, I want to know what love is. Refrain from ANY existential or philosophical viewpoints, as they are but sophistry and illusion.


“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman
This message is a reply to:
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