|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Splintering our Education System based on FAITH | |||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
many IDists accept an old universe and even some descent with modification, however they argue that there are limits to this... This guy wrote one of his grad papers "debunking" Darwin (I was handed the paper being told he had actually proved a major tenet of Darwin's theories wrong), and disconnected genotype from phenotype. That latter fact would seem to be a problem for someone dealing in genetics to get new phenotypes within plant products. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
tsig Member (Idle past 2936 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
This guy wrote one of his grad papers "debunking" Darwin (I was handed the paper being told he had actually proved a major tenet of Darwin's theories wrong), and disconnected genotype from phenotype. That latter fact would seem to be a problem for someone dealing in genetics to get new phenotypes within plant products. Doublethink=Holding mutually contradictory opinions. Faith has said upthread that she sees nothing wrong with breaking up the existing educational system.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Quetzal Member (Idle past 5900 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Faith,
You are so fundamentally, totally, and hopelessly wrong on just about all your assertions as to the physical (categorical) evidence that exists on these disparate subjects that I question whether it is in fact worth the effort to open a new thread to discuss them. Would you be willing to participate in a thread on why biogeography, ecology, etc falsify your contentions? We can talk in excrutiating detail about the specific data points (i.e., the evidence) and observations that show why you are wrong - but you MUST be willing to delve into those details. Let me know.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Brachinus Inactive Member |
Here's an interesting development in the "splintering" issue, which comes from (surprise!) Florida:
http://www.alligator.org/pt2/050323freedom.php "TALLAHASSEE Republicans on the House Choice and Innovation Committee voted along party lines Tuesday to pass a bill that aims to stamp out leftist totalitarianism by dictator professors in the classrooms of Florida’s universities." And: "Some professors say, ‘Evolution is a fact. I don’t want to hear about Intelligent Design (a creationist theory), and if you don’t like it, there’s the door,’ Baxley said, citing one example when he thought a student should sue. "Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, warned of lawsuits from students enrolled in Holocaust history courses who believe the Holocaust never happened. "Similar suits could be filed by students who don’t believe astronauts landed on the moon, who believe teaching birth control is a sin or even by Shands medical students who refuse to perform blood transfusions and believe prayer is the only way to heal the body, Gelber added. "
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: The evidence of different types is obvious, but it isn't evidence of new species. What Darwin found on the Galapagos was simply a different variety of turtle than those on the mainland -- like different breeds of dogs, cats, whatever. If they are "species" because they can no longer interbreed, that's just a definitional mistake. The inability to interbreed is most likely simply another effect of the genetic depletion that results from the severer forms of natural selection. This is what creates what are wrongly called "new species" -- all that has happened is that the gene pool of the population has been extremely limited by one of the processes of selection and brought about a new variety/race from new genetic combinations out of the pool of fewer genetic possibilities.
quote: Yes, they would, and according to most Flood ideas they DID drift much much faster with all the tectonic activity released by the Flood, and by now have slowed greatly. There is no proof that rates have always been the same as observed rates, just as there is no proof that anything observed now tells us anything for sure about conditions in the past.
quote: The idea I was trying to get across was that after the Flood the continents split apart -- yes, this happened pretty rapidly, and isolated marsupials there that were already concentrated in that part of the world, which turned out to be very hospitable to them, and any that might possibly have been left elsewhere were eliminated by natural selection processes.
quote: What facts have I ignored on this particular point? I'm giving what I understand to be a standard creationist explanation for these things that makes sense to me. I don't see that it contradicts -- or denies -- any actually KNOWN facts, merely the suppositions of the theory I'm opposing. Your side already exercises the same latitude, the appeal to possible explanations that haven't been proved.
quote: Yes, and what of these two observations contradicts the scenario I gave? Add them to the list of those factors favoring a Flood. I simply hadn't been aware that there is such a great preponderance of marine fossils in the fossil record, and this fact happens to be very compatible with Flood assumptions.
quote: I'm sorry, I don't remember the exact exchange so I'm not sure you are representing it accurately, but I certainly know that pretty rapid burial is necessary for fossilization in any case, so I don't how I could have said anything that contradicted such an idea. I don't recall saying anything about the DURATION of the churning up until the Flood was receding or any particular time, just that it would have certainly been laden with sediments that WERE stirred up by the Flood. I don't recall speculating about how soon they might have settled down. And I also don't recall focusing on MARINE life at the Dinosaur Monument. Perhaps you can quote me?
quote: Evolutionism certainly has a leg up on creationism as far as having their act together goes, no doubt there. Nobody knows for sure what would happen in such a Flood. All of it is a seeking for plausible explanations of what is actually observed in terms of the theory -- just as it is for evolutionist explanations. And again, this IS off topic, and I'm going to try to stick to the education theme now.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: You can't know it by empirical proof. That's not how the Bible works. You either believe it or you don't.
quote: Absolutely not. It is absolutely objective. You simply have trouble believing that true objective knowledge can be had by believing witnesses as much as by empirical evidence that can be demonstrated. And what's ironic about this is that the ToE is not based on empirical evidence.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: If anyone would simply pay attention to the actual sequence of posts you would see that I am not proselytizing, I am answering questions others raise and I don't go beyond the answers necessary to make the point. The answers are part of the discussion. Just because you all eliminate certain content on the basis of its being some special category called "religion" I don't. ALL of it is relevant to questions of fact and truth.
quote: Many accusations there. I'm sorry, it's been a while since I visited this thread as I got occupied elsewhere and I don't remember the sequence, but Christianity WAS the inspiration for higher education (as well as universal lower education) and if you want to start a thread about it, please do so.
quote: Perhaps I misunderstood but you seemed to be saying that you expected homeschoolers and Christian schools to teach something akin to flat earth theory and try to impose a lower standard of education on the nation, and I answered.
quote: They won't. I don't understand why this worries you, and I thought I already made it clear that I expect Christians and all others to meet the standards set and in fact they do. That was a big part of the discussion you just dismissed as off topic. I think you maybe need to refine your topic better.
quote: They'll look at whatever schools have earned a good reputation as they always do.
quote: What IS your worry, Holmes? This has nothing to do with any reality that I know of. The criteria are MET -- by homeschoolers, by Christian schools, etc. There is no desire on the part of Christians to marginalize their children -- they WANT them to master the standardized curricula.
quote: Best I can do given my inability to grasp what is really bothering you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: It was a prediction, no more, no less. Time will tell.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: I have no idea. Be more specific about what exactly you have in mind.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
My guess is that you will wait forever for it to come to pass but maybe you could give a hint at how long you think it might take before this prediction is fulfilled.
It would be even more interesting if you would suggest what the new facts would be. That is, I know, a big task but any guesses you have might be interesting. The problem is that you are unaware of the facts that we DO have in hand. If you had a teeny, tiny inkling of the nature of those then you might wonder where your new facts could find room to fit. Almost every single line of every single post of yours has been factually wrong. You have been told that over and over but it isn't sinking in. Your picture of the geology of the earth is almost utterl y mistaken. You might do well to try to figure out what the facts actually are.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: No new facts. Same old facts, understood better. It's the reasoning more than the facts, that will prove it. But no doubt a different emphasis on certain facts also, some that evolutionists disregard. I'd have to think harder than I'm up to at the moment to provide examples. Perhaps eventually.
quote: I know that every single line is not wrong. Sorry. Besides, you guys have been feeding me the facts so if they're wrong that's not my fault.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
I'd have to think harder than I'm up to at the moment to provide examples. Perhaps eventually. Until you provide signiticant examples you do understand that no one is going to be particularly impressed. Any one can make statments. It is the ability to back them up that counts.
I know that every single line is not wrong. Sorry. Besides, you guys have been feeding me the facts so if they're wrong that's not my fault. I did say almost every one. If I had to pick a number without researching at all I'd say you are about 80 to 90% wrong. That's a pretty high percentage. You have not shown any sign of understanding the facts that you have been fed. Personally I do think that is partially our fault. We have not taken the time to get to the particularly detailed and basic level that you need. It is however also your shared fault. I don't think you are going to get it straightened out here. It does, as I think has been suggested, require that you dig into the real facts of the geology. Or you need to find someone patient enough here to explain in great detail where you are wrong. Part of the problem, a big part in my opinion, is that you have yet to spell out in any deatail yourself just exactly what you think the facts are. I'm pretty sure I have a rough idea of your picture. If others teased it out of you they might be able to correct you. It is so very far from the actual facts that I think people can not believe you think what you do so they don't answer you. If you really wished to learn something (and I think it is clear that you do not) you might try to spell out your concepts and then maybe they could be corrected. For example, You have held, or still hold, an idea that the geologic column is a description of a world wide series of layers of rock forms. That is not right at all. Maybe I misunderstood this but it is something I got from your posts. From an earlier message:
Faith writes: The various objections evolutionists have will eventually be answered, and I'm sure you'd rather have science working from the TRUE understanding of the origins of life and the condition of the planet than a false one. There have been decades and even centuries for these to be answered. How long will it take? We all want the best possible understanding of course. However, we go with the best we have at any given time. Since you suggest that the facts are available and it just takes a better understanding and model I wonder what is taking the creation scientists? This message has been edited by NosyNed, 04-04-2005 11:02 PM
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You have held, or still hold, an idea that the geologic column is a description of a world wide series of layers of rock forms. That is not right at all. Maybe I misunderstood this but it is something I got from your posts. This got discussed and I quoted evolutionists and you apparently missed it. If I'm up to it I will eventually track it down again. {Fixed quote box. - AM} This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-05-2005 02:41 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Well, I'm not a geologist. And you shouldn't be referring to "evolutionists" in the context. It is geolgists that you need to get your information from.
However, I'm prepared to stick my neck out and tell you that if you got this impression (and I'm not sure we have the same picture in our minds as it is) then you have been given the wrong impression. Very wrong.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
However, I'm prepared to stick my neck out and tell you that if you got this impression (and I'm not sure we have the same picture in our minds as it is) then you have been given the wrong impression. Very wrong. Ya know, your contentless posts are getting pretty cryptic. If you aren't going to explain your points why should I listen to you at all?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024