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Author Topic:   Splintering our Education System based on FAITH
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 106 of 110 (196813)
04-05-2005 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
04-05-2005 1:07 AM


Re: the GC corrected
Once you have explained what you think the GC is like then perhaps we can understand and correct you.
For starters look around the world today. Is there a uniform layer at the surface everywhere? No. Therefore the will not be one layer across the globe. In fact, we would not expect such a layer anywhere.
At any one time there will be a lake putting down a small area of sediments of one kind. Perhaps around that the surface is eroding away. Maybe just over the hill is a large dessert of a few 100 kms in range that is building up as wind deposits more sand there from surrounding mountains. Over the mountains a sea is laying down sediments eroded from the mountains. Part of the mountain range is a series of volcanoes laying down periodic lava flows on the sea floor sediments and the dessert sands. In one part of the world there are many different layers being formed.
In another part of the world an inland sea may extend for 1,000's of kilometers laying down approximately similar sediements over a wide area. Over time they harden and maybe exposed when the sea partially retreats. Some of the exposed sediments are eroded others are overlaid by desert sands, lake sedments and lava at the surface. The sea expands again and a new set of sea bottom layers are put down over some of the new dry land sediments. While the rest of the sea stayed in place.
Only in a few places are there layers that cover the major time periods of the GC completely. At no time would the entire earth be getting one kind of layer being formed. In fact at no time would the entire earth be getting a new layer, there will be some areas expericnecing erosion.
The actual geology is a very, very complex mish mash of different processes working at different times.
The GC is a framework within which these may be fitted to help us present the information.
That is a non-geologists view of the geology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 04-05-2005 1:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 04-05-2005 2:57 AM NosyNed has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 107 of 110 (196830)
04-05-2005 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by NosyNed
04-05-2005 1:17 AM


Re: the GC corrected
quote:
Once you have explained what you think the GC is like then perhaps we can understand and correct you.
For starters look around the world today. Is there a uniform layer at the surface everywhere? No. Therefore the will not be one layer across the globe. In fact, we would not expect such a layer anywhere.
Nor do I. But you are confusing the Geo Column with the Geo timetable. The latter is described by GEOLOGISTS as an idealized model based on the idea that every time period WOULD BE represented in the Geo Column over the entire earth except for local disruptions.
quote:
At any one time there will be a lake putting down a small area of sediments of one kind. Perhaps around that the surface is eroding away. Maybe just over the hill is a large dessert of a few 100 kms in range that is building up as wind deposits more sand there from surrounding mountains. Over the mountains a sea is laying down sediments eroded from the mountains. Part of the mountain range is a series of volcanoes laying down periodic lava flows on the sea floor sediments and the dessert sands. In one part of the world there are many different layers being formed.
In another part of the world an inland sea may extend for 1,000's of kilometers laying down approximately similar sediements over a wide area. Over time they harden and maybe exposed when the sea partially retreats. Some of the exposed sediments are eroded others are overlaid by desert sands, lake sedments and lava at the surface. The sea expands again and a new set of sea bottom layers are put down over some of the new dry land sediments. While the rest of the sea stayed in place.
IN other words you don't really HAVE to pay a whole lot of attention to the actual layers that are seen here and there in the world. You can just look at what's going on now and ASSUME it will create such layers. Or on the other hand you know from how certain kinds of rocks form that they had to have been formed in water -- or not -- so you adjust your scenario to include water -- or not. This is the kind of thinking I keep objecting to.
quote:
Only in a few places are there layers that cover the major time periods of the GC completely. At no time would the entire earth be getting one kind of layer being formed. In fact at no time would the entire earth be getting a new layer, there will be some areas expericnecing erosion.
Yes, I got this a long time ago. And you've obviously missed my posts where I quoted the OFFICIAL statements about it, and now I really don't want to go hunt it all down again. However, the fact remains that the Geologic Timetable is a Geological concept and so is the Geological Column, and the fossil record supposedly CONSISTENTLY shown in the column OVER THE ENTIRE WORLD is taken to PROVE evolution.
quote:
The actual geology is a very, very complex mish mash of different processes working at different times.
The GC is a framework within which these may be fitted to help us present the information.
So what? Excuse me, but SO WHAT? I know all that and what do you think you are trying to prove???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by NosyNed, posted 04-05-2005 1:17 AM NosyNed has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 108 of 110 (196833)
04-05-2005 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Faith
04-04-2005 10:33 PM


Re: Prove it!
Faith writes:
You can't know it by empirical proof. That's not how the Bible works. You either believe it or you don't.
Ok, let's go from here. How does the bible work? How does one come to the conclusion that the bible is the book of truth and not any other religious text?
Absolutely not. It is absolutely objective. You simply have trouble believing that true objective knowledge can be had by believing witnesses as much as by empirical evidence that can be demonstrated.
Ok, would you please illustrate how empirical evidence can be obtained to show that the bible is the book of truth and not any other religious text?
And what's ironic about this is that the ToE is not based on empirical evidence.
Ok, let us assume that the theory of evolution is wrong and there is no such thing as natural selection or genetic mutation. Ok? Based on this assumption, it should be simple for you to stick to the subject and not wander off again like this.
Thanks in advance for answering the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 04-04-2005 10:33 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 109 of 110 (196842)
04-05-2005 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
04-04-2005 10:19 PM


Re: Prove it!
The "Darwin's finches" of the Galapgos aren't even classified as a single genus, to use just one example. Please provide evidence that they are the same as a mainland species.
And I am afraid that you are wrong to claim that there is no evidence of past drift rates. In fact the evidence is that drift rates have been largely constant for a long time (see http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/CT.htm which has been discussed here before), and even though there have been times when rates were faster, there is no evidence that they have been anywehre near as fast as the "Flood" scenarios require. (You do realise that we are talking about rates at least 6 or more orders of magnitude - and that 6 orders of magnitudes is 1 MILLION tiems faster ? - so where is the evidence of THAT ?)
Moroever your claim about marsupials is simple invention. Why the shortage of placental mammals in Australia ? Surely SOME must have made it through in your scenario. Your idea is not even a plausible explanation.
And I am really amazed that you shoulsd have to ask what facts you denied when I explicitly told you. You deny the fact that unique sepcies are often found on islands (the more isolated the better).
And when I refute your claim that the predominance of marine fossils is evidence for the Flood by pointing to mainstream explanations you simply ask how they disprove the Flood. And no, the observation is NOT so "very compatible" with the Flood - the Flood maintains that there were unusually good conditions for the preservation of land life and so the Flood should produce a balance LESS weighted towards marine life.
In the previous discussion you DENIED claiming that fossil marine life was "dug up" from the bottom (i.e. unburied). But if you are committed to rapid burial at the most you can claim that the fossils were buried, dug up and rapidly reburied. If they were being churned around for an entire year - as is required unless you accept they were dug up - then they were certainly not rapidly buried. And I really don't see how you can fail to remember discussing the marine strata at the site, preceding and following the dinosaur remains.
Finally, creationists aren't looking for a "plausible explanation" for the Flood. They are looking for a plausible explanation for the geological record. Trying to explain such a huge amount fo geology in terms of the Flood is an impediment to producing a "plausible" Flood story - but to explain geology in terms of a Young Earth they have only two real choices. Either assume Omphalism - that God HAD to plant fake fossils and rocks with false radiometric ages - or try to explain it all in terms of a Flood, despite the fact that the vast majority of the geological column looks quite unlike a flood deposit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 04-04-2005 10:19 PM Faith has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 110 of 110 (196843)
04-05-2005 3:51 AM


Terminal topic drift?
Going to close this one down. If anyone wishes it reopened, they need to make their case at the "Thread Reopen Requests" topic, link below.
Adminnemooseus

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