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Author | Topic: Kent Hovind's debates, can someone help? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
I get Hovind on TV Dish Sky Angel on Friday nites. I agree, he's very intelligent, interesting and witty. I agree with most of what he says, except that he like so many creationists believes that the entire universe was created about 6000 years ago. That's just nuts to think that the creator god Jehovah has only had something around him and something to do for a mere 6000 years. No matter what side of the debate you're on, you will enjoy listening to Ken Hovind......and you WILL become more knowledgeable having done so.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Have you ever heard him speak Abby?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
so the mesmerizing mellifluous massage medium is more important than the mistaken message? LOL Leever. Look, listen, laugh a little and learn enlightening lessons from the eloquent lecturer. [This message has been edited by buzsaw, 04-02-2004]
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Those who despise Hovinds ideology naturally focus on what they consider to be the man's weak areas, throwing out the baby with the bathwater but those of us who aren't so biased against him are enlightened by him. For example, until his recent coverage of the "Origin of Species" and the ultra racist views of Darwin as well as the influence he had on the thinking of Hitler, I was unaware of all this. That's just one example of a lot of enlightening stuff Hovind talks about. This is what I meant when I said that all can learn some while being quite entertained.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Whatever you may learn from Hovind, I can guaretee it is not good science , or sciece at all in most cases. I beg to differ. Of course you wouldn't consider the flood interpretation of what is observed at the Grand Canyon as good science either. That doesn't necessarily make Hovind wrong and you right though since neither were there when it was formed.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
"If you are traveling down the highway at sixty miles an hour, and turn your headlights on, how fast is the light going from your headlights? Compared to you, it is going at the speed of light. Compared to someone on the sidewalk it is going at the speed of light plus sixty miles an hour." I dono. Is one light ray emitted or are multiple rays being perpetually emitted from the radiating filament?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Accoding to your reasoning, it's impossible for you to make any determination at all about how that snow got there. Apples and potatoes. With the snow there's no question as it is observed frequently. (GONG!)
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you have never read Darwin's "Origin of Species", Buz, am I right? You're right, but I've checked out the Hovind info and it is corroborated from what appears to be reliable sources.
So why do you take the word of someone with a diploma mill PhD, a record of tax evasion, and who believes in fire-breathing dragons regarding a book you have never read? Be honest, fair and balanced now, Schraf. Tax evasion or legally/lawfully tax smart. What has he ever been convicted of tax wise?? As for his education, in Aug, 03, EvC, MessenjaH posted this quote from Hovind.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- " Every once in a while someone will ask me the question, "Where did you get your degree?" While I am not the least bit ashamed of my education, I have learned by experience that they could be asking the question because they have come to the point where they cannot attack the message I bring against evolution so they wish to attack me personally instead. This is called an ad hominem argument. They mistakenly think that by belittling the man they have answered his points and won the debate. When the opponent in a debate begins using ad hominem attacks, it is an obvious signal that they are losing the debate on facts and must resort to other means to try to save face or divert attention. It is also interesting to watch how the evolutionists will spend much time and effort scrutinizing a subject like my degree or credentials yet won't spend 2 seconds scrutinizing how ridiculous the evolution theory is! They truly strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Matthew 23:24 Back to the degree question. I took advanced math and science classes at East Peoria High School graduating in 1971. I earned my first 60 (+ or -) credit hours majoring in math and science at Illinois Central College in East Peoria, Illinois. I then transferred to Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan where I double majored in education and the Bible and graduated in 1974. (I took 18-20 hours each semester plus summer school to graduate in 3 years.) While I taught math and science in Christian schools for the next 15 years I took courses at several Bible colleges in my spare time. I finished my Masters (1988) and Doctorate (1991) degrees in education from Patriot University. At the time it was small Christian university in Colorado Springs that offered an extension program for people involved in full time ministries. I was taking courses from Patriot University (established 1980) while it was a ministry of Hilltop Baptist Church and offered a Ph.D. in education. I spent many years working on my degree and learned a lot - as anyone who has watched my debates with evolutionists or seminar series will testify. Long after I graduated, Patriot became independent of the church, moved their offices into a house and dropped the Ph.D. in their education program. Some ill informed scoffers have even circulated a picture of the house where they are now located. I don't understand their logic but evidently they think this somehow discredits me. Patriot allowed students to give offerings to the school instead of a regular tuition payment. Some scoffers have laughed at this idea yet they don't seem to realize how many thousands have gone through secular schools without using any of their own money via grants, scholarships or their parent's savings. Some have ridiculed the size of the school. If Harvard offers a Ph.D. degree program with only 3 or 4 students (this happens at many schools- sometimes with only 1 student), does the small number automatically mean they are not "earning their degree" or that they are attending a "diploma mill" school? Of course not! Nearly all schools offer classes by correspondence. My 250-page dissertation dealt with the subject of the effects of teaching evolution on the students in our public school system. My 20-year study of the creation evolutionism subject led me to start Creation Science Evangelism in 1991. I now speak over 700 times each year on the subject, have had 40+ debates and have been a guest on over 3500 radio and television talk shows. My itinerary is available from my office or on my web site, and any evolutionist interested in a public debate any place they chose is welcome to contact me to arrange a time while I am in their area. Since they think I don't have a degree, they can call me Kent, Mr. Hovind or even "hey you," if it will make them feel better. Since they don't think I am "properly educated" it should be easy for them to demonstrate how wrong I am and how much evidence there is for evolution. I should be a pushover, but I am willing to debate them anyway and run the risk of publicly embarrassing myself. I hope this helps answer your question. If you are looking for someone with advanced degrees in science, I do not have them and have never claimed that I did. If you would like the names of scientists who support the young earth creationist position you may want to contact the Institute for Creation Research at 619-448-0900 or The Institute for Creation Research | The Institute for Creation Research. They can supply you with a list. I only claim to have many years experience in studying the subject and the common sense to know that the universe is too complex to have happened without an incredibly smart designer (whom I happen to know personally as my savior). By the way, Darwin's only degree was in theology yet he is often called a great scientist in textbooks today. Who and what determines who gets to be called a "scientist" and why don't these scoffers put the same effort into correcting textbooks that call "Reverend" Darwin a scientist? Darwin was, in fact, quite anti-racist for a white man of his day,........ Yah sure, of course. He had extermination in mind instead of slavery, didn't he?
I hope you will use your new found interest in "Origin of Species" to actually read it! Conveniently, the entire text is available on line here: What else besides most of the original title has been altered or omitted?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
DS, I don't want to go off topic about the canyon, but the recent cut canyon model Mt St. Helens produced says a lot and all the ramifications for the creo argument are significant, including factors about preflood earth topography and atmospheric conditions, all interpretive relative to ones views, including Hovind's as well as many qualified scientists and physicists who agree with much of what Hovind is saying.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
What makes you think the title has been altered? And do you honestly think that a site like Talk Origins would use an altered text on their site? A text that would be extremely easy to verify? Do a google on "On the Origin of Species by means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life." or key phrases of this. You should get a number of hits. I dono. I'm questioning other stuff. If the title has been changed it seems logical that the text might also be.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Cynic, check message 6 in RACIAL EVOLUTION 101 where I've already covered this.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Asgara, does your copy have the full original title on the cover or title page?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Buz be bidding byby for bedyby. I'll check back in when I can.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
OK I see what you mean. I didn't open the link because I didn't have time to read a book. Nevertheless, Hovind is right in that most of the title has been edited out in subsequent editions. Is that correct?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
It shows a lack of understanding of the most basic high school physics for Hovind to say "to someone on the sidewalk that car's headlights appear to be "going" at the speed of light plus sixty miles an hour." You missed Hovind's point. Read it carefully. The point of his statement was that the light was moving 60 miles faster away from the bystander than from the car occupants, the speed of the auto being 60 mph. It's purpose was to entertain and stimulate thought but nevertheless true. Anyhow, thanks for the lesson on physics and light.
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