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Author Topic:   Creationism in science classrooms (an argument for)
Meddle
Member (Idle past 1296 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 60 of 609 (482030)
09-14-2008 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Modulous
09-13-2008 6:56 PM


Re: creation science
How should a teacher deal with this? It keeps happening, children are giving answers that correspond with 2nd Century science because the students are told that the beliefs of certain religious thinkers are to be held as inviolable.
As Straggler already stated Science class is about showing you understand what's taught in science, regardless of whether or not you accept it. So if a student persistently answers questions which are some variant of 'god did it' in exams, the teacher has every right to give them a poor mark.
But suppose the teacher did consider a students religious leanings and gives more favourable marks, what about the other 75% of students who do make the effort to study hard and understand the science as taught? Would they feel cheated, maybe not putting the same effort into learning the subject in future? After all it is just science, they are only learning 'theories' we don't know any f this for certain, and it could all have been different in the past anyway.
What if the religious student obtained a passing mark in science class because of this policy and based on this decide to take it in university. Should the university accept the student, given that they may need to reiterate basic highers or even standard grade level biology, holding back other students; or should they increase the minimum entrance requirements, which would have the side effect of making it harder for student with a genuine interest in science to get in?
I realise that these may be worst case scenarios, but it does suggest the more wide-reaching detrimental effects that could potentially occur.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Modulous, posted 09-13-2008 6:56 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Modulous, posted 09-14-2008 11:08 AM Meddle has replied

Meddle
Member (Idle past 1296 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 84 of 609 (482413)
09-16-2008 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Modulous
09-14-2008 11:08 AM


Re: creation science
Indeed they could. But unless you are making an oblique political argument that by acknowledging the existence of creationism we will find ourselves giving equal marks to creationist answers, I don't see your point.
I'm not proposing giving credit to creationism. I'm just saying that its existence be acknowledged and the mental roadblocks it will present for those students be tackled so that they can actually learn about evolution, and the rest of science, without feeling the relationship is necessarily antagonistic.
Hmm... don't think I was making any oblique political arguments. More like I was suggesting a few more hypothetical scenarios, and maybe got a wee bit carried away. In retrospect, I probably should have addressed this post to ICANT, or not posted at all.
Anyway, I get the gist of what you are suggesting in trying to get science to address alternative view points in such a way that the children don't feel they have to make a choice between science and their faith. But if you do this in science class, won't their beliefs just be highlighted as being wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Modulous, posted 09-14-2008 11:08 AM Modulous has not replied

Meddle
Member (Idle past 1296 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 423 of 609 (610519)
03-30-2011 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Robert Byers
03-29-2011 10:48 PM


Robert Byers writes:
Its about the establishment clause or separation concept in the law being used to censor God and Genesis as options for origins in public schools.
They are saying its constitutionally illegal for the state to allow creationism as a option in origin subjects .
I argue that since origin subjects in schools are taught from a position of accurate conclusions and processes to those conclusions then in FACT the state is making a opinion that some religious doctrines are false.
So based on your argument, if the genesis creation story is taught in school, the state position is that it is true? But then what happens to all those other religions whose creation stories are not taught? Does that make them false, leading to the establishment of a state religion, or would you have them all taught as 'true'?
Also you earlier suggested not teaching things which may contradict a religious teaching, the example given being a flat earth. Does that also go for two religions with conflicting views? Do you favour one religions views over another?
At the end of the day, it's about teaching science. It's not about memorising a series of facts and blindly accepting them as truth. You are there to learn about the evidence available and how the conclusions are reached, and learn these skills so you can apply them yourself. However, this process is undermined when you are told to disregard evidence and the conclusions you make are contradicted by ad hoc assertions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Robert Byers, posted 03-29-2011 10:48 PM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 434 by Robert Byers, posted 04-05-2011 2:54 AM Meddle has not replied

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