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Author Topic:   The rise of faith schools
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 61 of 144 (302216)
04-07-2006 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
04-07-2006 10:49 AM


Re: You keep using the word Christian
quote:
Other religions are taught in many Christian schools as well. I know that we spent many years studying Judaism, Islam, Taoism, the writings of teachers like the Buddha, Mencius, Confucius and the different philosopies and philosophers. We had to build the case for Atheism, and also for Agnosticism. Our beliefs were challenged, and tempered.
My niece's Catholic middle school taught a world religions class, and she enjoyed it very much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 04-07-2006 10:49 AM jar has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 62 of 144 (302218)
04-07-2006 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by ThingsChange
04-07-2006 3:39 PM


Re: Point of View
quote:
I think the value of faith-based education in generating quality human beings outweighs my objections.
Again, any particular evidence you have to support this assertion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ThingsChange, posted 04-07-2006 3:39 PM ThingsChange has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by ThingsChange, posted 04-08-2006 5:04 PM nator has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 63 of 144 (302220)
04-07-2006 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by ThingsChange
04-07-2006 3:39 PM


Re: Point of View
I think Christians have to get better at teaching both creationism and evolutionism. I'd love to see Christians become scientists and grasp both systems thoroughly and know the terms of the debate better than anybody else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ThingsChange, posted 04-07-2006 3:39 PM ThingsChange has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 64 of 144 (302226)
04-07-2006 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
04-07-2006 9:35 AM


Re: It's about protecting children
Yes, thanks for the quotes, that's what I was thinking of. The word "religion" back in those days was commonly used to refer to Christianity, and that included the deist or unitarian forms in their minds by that time. Christians used the term all the time that way, though these days it has come to include all the world's religions.
do you have any evidence of this? i know jefferson when he wrote about religion to the baptists also spoke of islam, and judaism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 04-07-2006 9:35 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 65 of 144 (302229)
04-07-2006 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ReverendDG
04-07-2006 8:11 PM


The term "religion"
The founders sometimes referred to other religions, but I think they specified them rather than using the generic term "religion" to stand for them, because Christians habitually used the term to refer to Christian religion. There should be lots of examples of this but I'll have to dig them up.
This message has been edited by Faith, 04-07-2006 09:17 PM

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Mr Q. QQQQQ
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 144 (302275)
04-08-2006 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by MangyTiger
04-06-2006 8:36 PM


Teachers Union demand scrapping of faith schools.
MangyTiger writes:
Faith schools pretty much inevitably reinforce segregation and separation and I think that's a very bad idea.
And I would have to agree, so it seems do the members of the National Union of Teachers here in the UK.
To quote an article in The Independent newspaper;
Richard Garner, Education Editor writes:
Delegates will be told [at the NUT's annual conference] that this is fostering religious divisions and creating a fertile ground for ethnic conflict and even terrorism.
And also;
Steve Sinnott, the union's general secretary, said there was "enormous concern around the country" over the growth of faith schools.
Here is the article in full.
I sincerely hope there is such concern around the country, though I do believe kids are apt to find rivalry anywhere, I also think religion can be a divisive influence.
I hope the NUT's concerns are taken into account by the government, though i have to admit I laughed when I typed that.
So what is this? A win for common sense?
PS: A good couple of years lurking here and i finally wrote a post! whoop whoop!
This message has been edited by Mr Q. QQQQQ, 04-08-2006 02:34 AM

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 68 by Faith, posted 04-08-2006 10:13 AM Mr Q. QQQQQ has not replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 144 (302323)
04-08-2006 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Mr Q. QQQQQ
04-08-2006 2:30 AM


Welcome message
'bout damn time you posted.

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  • This message is a reply to:
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    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 68 of 144 (302328)
    04-08-2006 10:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 66 by Mr Q. QQQQQ
    04-08-2006 2:30 AM


    Re: Teachers Union demand scrapping of faith schools.
    I would agree that there is a problem with allowing Muslims their own schools as they do teach terrorism in them.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by Mr Q. QQQQQ, posted 04-08-2006 2:30 AM Mr Q. QQQQQ has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 69 by whiskeyjack, posted 04-08-2006 4:25 PM Faith has not replied

      
    whiskeyjack
    Inactive Member


    Message 69 of 144 (302463)
    04-08-2006 4:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
    04-08-2006 10:13 AM


    Re: Teachers Union demand scrapping of faith schools.
    I would agree that there is a problem with allowing Muslims their own schools as they do teach terrorism in them
    Please tell me this is a sarcastic comment?
    This message has been edited by whiskeyjack, 04-08-2006 09:30 PM
    This message has been edited by whiskeyjack, 04-08-2006 09:51 PM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by Faith, posted 04-08-2006 10:13 AM Faith has not replied

      
    ThingsChange
    Member (Idle past 5926 days)
    Posts: 315
    From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
    Joined: 02-04-2004


    Message 70 of 144 (302471)
    04-08-2006 4:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 59 by nwr
    04-07-2006 6:37 PM


    Re: No, It's about money
    quote:
    Home schooling is usually a bad idea...
    Not from the results that I have seen.
    quote:
    ...such encouragement could lead to a deterioration in education of the citizenry.
    Nonsense. It would likely be some bell curve with some worse, some exceptionally better, and most better overall. Competition is better and is proven. Socialistic policy leads to overall decreasing quality, not competition.
    quote:
    That's a misunderstanding of evolution. There is no standard of "better" that directs evolution.
    No, you are misunderstanding. I am not advocating some beauracracy that "directs" education (like you are). I am advocating freedom to experiment and find out what works and doesn't work.
    You are assuming public schooling has adapted to best fit. Far from it. It's a disaster, and doesn't meet special needs. That's a big reason why many people pull their kids from school to home school them.
    quote:
    Look at the news reports on the TV networks. At one time they were run as benevolent dictatorships, paid for by the entertainment programming. Now they are faced with the competition of the market. They have become far worse than they were.
    I am not sure they were ever that good. In any case, they adapted to the business environment. But guess what? More competition has led to more balance (witness internet, Fox News and radio talk shows to get out the news and analyze what is happening).

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 59 by nwr, posted 04-07-2006 6:37 PM nwr has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 72 by nator, posted 04-08-2006 6:36 PM ThingsChange has replied
     Message 74 by nwr, posted 04-08-2006 7:20 PM ThingsChange has replied

      
    ThingsChange
    Member (Idle past 5926 days)
    Posts: 315
    From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
    Joined: 02-04-2004


    Message 71 of 144 (302476)
    04-08-2006 5:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 62 by nator
    04-07-2006 7:24 PM


    people of faith are good to deal with
    RE: My assertion that faith-based education creates better quality folks
    I base that claim on:
    1. My own anecdotal evidence with people of faith
    2. From what police officers have told me about the profile of the types of people that commit crime and who are in the jails
    3. Common sense ... they teach good values and have an incentive not to be selfish
    The big exception to this, of course, are the radical Muslims !
    So, I do not claim that all faiths are good for our society.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 62 by nator, posted 04-07-2006 7:24 PM nator has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by nator, posted 04-08-2006 6:39 PM ThingsChange has replied

      
    nator
    Member (Idle past 2170 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 72 of 144 (302515)
    04-08-2006 6:36 PM
    Reply to: Message 70 by ThingsChange
    04-08-2006 4:50 PM


    Re: No, It's about money
    quote:
    I am not sure they were ever that good.
    I am.
    Network TV news used to actually be about investigative journalism.
    Edward R. Murrow? Walter Kronkite?
    Now they are just about making money.
    quote:
    In any case, they adapted to the business environment.
    Right.
    That's why the best informed people are the ones listening to non-profit outlets like NPR.
    quote:
    But guess what? More competition has led to more balance (witness internet, Fox News and radio talk shows to get out the news and analyze what is happening).
    Er, no.
    Mainstream TV news is far, far, far more conservative and lacking in real content and analysis than ever before.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 70 by ThingsChange, posted 04-08-2006 4:50 PM ThingsChange has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 85 by ThingsChange, posted 04-10-2006 9:28 AM nator has replied

      
    nator
    Member (Idle past 2170 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 73 of 144 (302516)
    04-08-2006 6:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 71 by ThingsChange
    04-08-2006 5:04 PM


    Re: people of faith are good to deal with
    quote:
    I base that claim on:
    1. My own anecdotal evidence with people of faith
    Anecdotal evidence isn't good enough to base national policy upon.
    quote:
    2. From what police officers have told me about the profile of the types of people that commit crime and who are in the jails
    ...which is more personal anecdotal evidence.
    quote:
    3. Common sense ... they teach good values and have an incentive not to be selfish
    ...which is just your personal opinion.
    If what you are saying is true, though, shouldn't we find a scarcity of religiously-raised people in our prisons?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by ThingsChange, posted 04-08-2006 5:04 PM ThingsChange has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by redseal, posted 04-08-2006 7:26 PM nator has not replied
     Message 87 by ThingsChange, posted 04-10-2006 9:51 AM nator has replied

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 6408
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 5.1


    Message 74 of 144 (302526)
    04-08-2006 7:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 70 by ThingsChange
    04-08-2006 4:50 PM


    Re: No, It's about money
    Competition is better and is proven. Socialistic policy leads to overall decreasing quality, not competition.
    It sounds as if you are more concerned with pushing a political ideology, than with the best interests of the children and the community.
    I am not advocating some beauracracy that "directs" education (like you are).
    Where did I ever advocate bureaucracy?
    You are assuming public schooling has adapted to best fit. Far from it. It's a disaster, and doesn't meet special needs.
    There are some excellent public school systems, and there are some poor ones. Some of the problems of public schools derive from social conditions in the communities. Where private schools look better, it is often because they get to cherry-pick their students.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 70 by ThingsChange, posted 04-08-2006 4:50 PM ThingsChange has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 86 by ThingsChange, posted 04-10-2006 9:41 AM nwr has replied

      
    redseal
    Inactive Member


    Message 75 of 144 (302528)
    04-08-2006 7:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 73 by nator
    04-08-2006 6:39 PM


    Re: people of faith are good to deal with
    ...shouldn't we find a scarcity of religiously-raised people in our prisons?
    You may be confusing religiously-raised folk who follow wrong religions, with religiously-raised folk who follow the one true religion. Muslims, Jews, False Christians and other assorted riff-raff are sinners and are not exempt from prison; God's True Flock are not to be found in prison!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 73 by nator, posted 04-08-2006 6:39 PM nator has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 76 by MangyTiger, posted 04-08-2006 7:34 PM redseal has not replied
     Message 78 by ReverendDG, posted 04-09-2006 5:26 PM redseal has replied

      
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