What patronizing attitude? If you're going to invoke a supernatural being as an explanation for a problem we haven't solved yet, how is this any different than goddunit? Again, can't you see the obvious intellectual dead-end? Why even go to school or study anything? Goddunit seems to satisfy every question we could ever have.
Why does Jupiter have that great red spot that persists for centuries? Well, goddunit, of course. Why does the wind on Neptune far more powerful than the wind on Saturn even though Neptune is much farther from the sun than Saturn? Well, goddunit, of course. Why do we have wisdom teeth? God works in mysterious ways, I guess.
Can't you see the obvious intellectual dead-end?
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
A little tidbit about where I live in Africa. A person can graduate from High School here, and have no idea that there is a scientific theory called the Theory of Evolution or the Big Bang Theory. I know this because of my own little survey. You choose your direction in High School, and if it is not science then you are not taught these things. However, everyone is taught about creation in Religous and Moral Education Class. It seems as though we are doing exactly the opposite in our American schools.
And I'm sure Africa is in the forefront of scientific progress. I'm also sure that the probes that have been landing on Mars have "Made in Africa" written all over them.
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
When a child completes their education they should be open to new ideas and willing to learn. They should be able to accept or reject the possibility of a spiritual realm on their own. They should understand that everything is not as black and white as the physical exists, and the spiritual does not exist.
But clearly this has been demonstrated over and over to not work. This exact same way of thinking plunged Europe into the dark ages for over 800 years. The parts of the world that have adopted this policy that you are proposing are the most backward, undemocratic societies today. So, clearly, having the state to endorse this spiritual realm of yours would impede progress.
It seems that if we create a population that has no understanding of how to go beyond the physical realm then the most important questions in life will go unanswered for them.ours have been demonstrated to impede progress.
Can you point to a few progresses (scientific or not) made by exploring the spiritual side that actually had any practical value? I'm talking about an example where god came down and gave a spiritual leader anti-biotics or told him how to create a better crop yield. So far, we've only had examples of scam artists (aka faith healers) that have scammed people out of millions of dollars. Just look up psychic surgery, Peter Popoff, and Uri Geller. Are these the kinds of messiahs you want us to follow?
Education needs to be structured in a way that opens doors, not closes them.
Exactly. And the way we do this is by making the children understand that wishful thinking isn't going to get them anywhere. Again, can you give us a few examples of spiritual progress that have saved millions of lives? If anything, spiritual persistence has done very well at subjugating people. All we have to do is look at the various fundamentalist islamic states and how people's private lives are controled by holy men.
If we want the American people to have the ability to search out the truth, then we must not close this door either intentionally or inadvertently.
If you didn't notice, people voted Bush (aka Jesus Christ II) into office for a second term in 2004. So, clearly the American people are already on the path that you would have us to be on.
By the way, if McCain gets voted in, I'm moving to Canada.
The point is if there is a god then the best way to find god is through skepticism and not blind faith or spirituality or what have you. The last thing we need is the school system telling students to pray to Bush.
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Just watch this short clip of James Randi debunking Peter Popoff, a popular faith healer. Can't you feel the spirituality of the scam? Look at all the faithfuls that believed in Popoff's bullshit. Is this the kind of "spiritual side" you want us to teach our children?
Added by edit again.
Here is a clip from 2007. I guess there are still people stupid enough to be scammed by this spiritual scam artist. Look at all the faithfuls. Is this what you want our children to be? Just sheeps for the spiritual wolves?
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
I was sleepy last night so I didn't make clear what my main point is. My main point is, and this fits in perfectly with what we are discussing, is that we as a society has an obligation to equip our children through our public education the knowledge and the skills necessary to defend themselves against spiritual scam artists. And the best way to do this is by teaching them to be critical and skeptical of what they see and hear.
This is not to say that I am against spirituality. People can do whatever the hell they want. If they want to raise their kids to be spiritual lambs for the spiritual wolves to prey on, then I say it's fine by me. What I am against is using the public school system to systematically turn our kids into spiritual lambs to be preyed on.
Skepticism and science ARE the best tools to fight against spiritual wolves. Let me give you an example.
In one of James Randi's interviews I recently saw, an audience member asked him a question that made me hit my own head. The thing is you could see that this guy was frustrated with James Randi. He asked James "how do you explain people walking on rocks that are thousands of degrees high with their spirituality?"
James Randi gave an answer that ANY high school physics student ought to be able to answer. The rocks they walked on have very low specific heat! Just how many of our faithfuls know what specific heat is? I don't know about everyone else, but to me that guy that asked the question made an idiot out of himself. He demonstrated that he lacked both the most basic of basic science knowledge and the most basic of basic skeptic attitude to deal with reality. I could just walk right up to him and sell him a "miracle" water bottle for $500 and he'd gladly give me $500 for the "miracle" water bottle.
Over the years, James Randi has said over and over that if you are confronted with what seems to be a miracle, wouldn't it be better if we could have a natural explanation? Skepticism and science allow us to have a natural explanation for these things. Why automatically assume the supernatural? If god is as all powerful as people make him out to be, wouldn't it make more sense to try to be as skeptical and learn as much science as you can so you could differentiate between bullshit and miracle?
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Percy writes:
In other words, not only is this style of evangelizing fraudulent, the crime is committed upon the most sincere and unsuspecting among us by the worst kind of people. The deeply religious just don't realize what sitting ducks they are, and the fundamental reason is that their a significant portion of their world view is not based upon reality.
The problem right now is that these scam artists are doing this in the name of religion. This is how they are able to not get charged with fraud. The christian right have made sure that the atmosphere is perfect for these spiritual wolves to prosper. Remember our dear Madeline and the laws that allow faithful parents to maim and kill their kids because they have faith in god? The reason these scam artists are not being charged with fraud and that they are allowed to continue to scam people out of millions of dollars is simply because the christian right don't want the faithfuls to become skeptical. To hell with being victims to these scam artists. What's important is they will go to heaven for remaining spiritual sheeps to be preyed on.
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"Boy could I make a lot of money if I just didn't have a conscience!"
Speak for yourself. I just realized how much money I could be making by playing along with the faithfuls. I'm gonna drop everything and become a faith healer. My wife could stop teaching and start helping me scam christians out of their hard-earned money (they asked for it by not paying attention in science classes). We could do that prop by Popoff. My wife could talk into my ear via wireless radio and tell me people's names and symptoms from the cards they filled out at the door. I'm on my way to becoming a millionaire!
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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